@ SiPMerlin150, running roots with 6013's???

[SiPMerlin150]

A case of you having to perfect your technique. Say you have a similar joint type as described above, 6013 all that is available, also, suitable rod for end product, what would you do?

I'd have no choice but to use the 6013's and use a combination of a chipping hammer and a grinder to get out the rest of the slag before continuing. and like you said, i still need to hone my skills, but i think i'm getting there.

 

[Rrunnach]

I'd have no choice but to use the 6013's and use a combination of a chipping hammer and a grinder to get out the rest of the slag before continuing. and like you said, i still need to hone my skills, but i think i'm getting there.

Key word "no choice" keep honing the skill of welding, like all things new, learn to crawl, before walking, and running up-hill.

Cheers.

 

[snowcat]

Slag shouldn't be an issue with a properly run joint, certainly not in anything woven where no matter the rod the slag has normally fallen away before the buckets even open, Iv said it before look at FJs threads, he was running nearly all 6013 caps, with some roots with 6013 and others with TIG, Looking closely at these threads will be the BEST tutorial on positional work your ever likely to find....

I think tho the previous post has a very good mete fore.

 

[Drains]

The only reason slag inclusion should ever be an excuse is if using rubbish rods. I say that because I can't use Clarke, Screwfix etc rods and I have tried (but never for work purposes!!!)
SIPMerlin, I think you're wrong in your description of 7016 etc, The slag doesn't flow out of the way - it's fast freeze! The reason you can distinguish easily between the slag and weldpool is that the slag freezes quickly unlike with the average 6013, where the slag freezes slower.

Don't forget, the exact brand and make of rod (particularly 6013) can make a huge difference in performance and most welders not only have a preference but notice when a rod spec/composition has been changed. You only have to hear people wax lyrical about "old" vodex 6013s to appreciate that.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

The only reason slag inclusion should ever be an excuse is if using rubbish rods. I say that because I can't use Clarke, Screwfix etc rods and I have tried (but never for work purposes!!!)
SIPMerlin, I think you're wrong in your description of 7016 etc, The slag doesn't flow out of the way - it's fast freeze! The reason you can distinguish easily between the slag and weldpool is that the slag freezes quickly unlike with the average 6013, where the slag freezes slower.

Don't forget, the exact brand and make of rod (particularly 6013) can make a huge difference in performance and most welders not only have a preference but notice when a rod spec/composition has been changed. You only have to hear people wax lyrical about "old" vodex 6013s to appreciate that.

The rods i've used are siftrodes, but i'm going to reach out and try some fincord m's, lincoln electric's 6013, and elga 6013's and see how i get on.

I've used siftrode from the beginning and haven't budged from that brand except for the filarc 7016's. I think its time to try other brands.

 

[Drains]

The rods i've used are siftrodes, but i'm going to reach out and try some fincord m's, lincoln electric's 6013, and elga 6013's and see how i get on.

I've used siftrode from the beginning and haven't budged from that brand except for the filarc 7016's. I think its time to try other brands.

Fincord M's are an easy rod to use. I'm sure the siftrodes are too. What's most important is than none of those you mention are cheap and nasty. As the comments above then, technique is probably the thing to develop.

I imagine you're already well aware that good current selection also contributes to avoiding slag inclusion.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Fincord M's are an easy rod to use. I'm sure the siftrodes are too. What's most important is than none of those you mention are cheap and nasty. As the comments above then, technique is probably the thing to develop.

I imagine you're already well aware that good current selection also contributes to avoiding slag inclusion.

I did use some fincord M's on the first part of my course, and i did like them.

I caught him out initially as he gave me a box of 'multichord' electrodes and there was no two doubts that they were chinese! They smell like burning paper. I mentioned it to him, and he explained that its not cheap to be giving low hi's and premium rods to learners, but he knew I could weld basic joints by looking at my work, so he cracked out the fincords, lo hi's, bohlers cellulosics etc.

 

[Rrunnach]

I did use some fincord M's on the first part of my course, and i did like them.

I caught him out initially as he gave me a box of 'multichord' electrodes and there was no two doubts that they were chinese! They smell like burning paper. I mentioned it to him, and he explained that its not cheap to be giving low hi's and premium rods to learners, but he knew I could weld basic joints by looking at my work, so he cracked out the fincords, lo hi's, bohlers cellulosics etc.

I don't understand why a training organisation would be handing out premium rods to a new learner on a EAL Level One certifcate course, I know for fact, no premium rods use are mentioned in a EAL Level Two range statements. It is only when a learner reaches EAL Level Three, range statements will include Lo-Hi, Cells, Rutiles within range.

Organisation you attended level one course, must have a very large budget???

 

[SiPMerlin150]

i was the only one who attended the course, and because i wasnt a 'funded' person, i began the course and payed up front on the first day i turned up.

I had the benefit of one to one tuition with the academy i did it at. This is why he did a lot more than i should of got for level one. I'm currently 50% of my way through my level 2 at the moment.

I'd of thought using cheapo rods would of make life harder for beginners limited progress?

 

[Rrunnach]

I'd of thought using cheapo rods would of make life harder for beginners limited progress?

It's not about learner being a beginner, it is about what is required to meet range statements to complete each unit.

I certainly wouldn't be sticking a 6010/11-70** into the business end of a beginners whip, a recipe for pure frustration, especially when burning cells.

Cheers.............

 

[snowcat]

Cheap rods are not nearly bad rods, Many white boxed 6013s are used in industry, and most large (if not all) manufactures will offer a budget rod, mostly weld suppliers will offer a perfectly decent white boxed rod that are completely different from, the rubbish sold by DIY shop, supermarkets, ebay etc.

 

[PTvor]

Main brand white box rods are often one of their main range (or someone's range) but without the approvals. They'll fit some sort of specification consistently and they'll have stuff written on the box such as suitable positions and current range.

Rods from Screwfix etc come with nothing written on the box apart from "Arc Electrodes, 2.5mm, 5Kg" Nothing to suggest that they are only any good on the flat for instance.

I suppose if you are a welding supplier selling low cost rods, your customers know what rods are supposed to be like and you'll hear all about it if they are rubbish. If you are a DIY place it's just another thing you sell amongst thousands of other lines and you don't know or care much about them.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Rods from Screwfix etc come with nothing written on the box apart from "Arc Electrodes, 2.5mm, 5Kg" Nothing to suggest that they are only any good on the flat for instance.

Screwfix and other ones similar are a useful as wet sparklers

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Fincords for the win!

I've purchased some 1.6mm lincoln 6013's, 2.0mm elga 6013's and 2.0mm fincord m's.....

Due to the sheer crapness of duty cycle on my buzzbox, 2.0 and 2.5mm electrodes in conjunction with an added colling fans see me a better duty cycle than before. Besides, thinner rods are better for improving techniques as every little tremor makes a big difference in the finished weld.

Set my welder up for 55 amps burned the 2.0mm fincords excellent, whilst the elga rods it was far to obvious this was too high amperage wise for them.

Heres a lap joint on two pieces of thick steel, (ignore all the rest of the beads on these scrap pieces)

working from right to left my first run was great, and where the middle of the weld is slightly raised is a restart. Fincord m's were used. They burn very, very nice. Might not use siftrodes no more

 

[keith19]

I've always preferred Fincords to any other rod. They are easy to use, make a good-looking job, and the weld is well strong enough for average use. But they are getting a bit expensive now...

 

[SiPMerlin150]

I've always preferred Fincords to any other rod. They are easy to use, make a good-looking job, and the weld is well strong enough for average use. But they are getting a bit expensive now...

I've always bought electrodes from ebay (branded) in small bundles which is good for me as i've not been burning through enough to buy a carton. Fincords are £18-20 per box + £8-9 postage. .

 

[keith19]

What weight is your box? Or how many rods at 2.00mm or 2.5mm?
http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/DisplayItemInfo.aspx?c=0030N
Plus VAT and postage, although two boxes would be post free, but I don't get through many rods in the course of a year, but always tend to check up how much they are per rod before buying.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

What weight is your box? Or how many rods at 2.00mm or 2.5mm?
http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/DisplayItemInfo.aspx?c=0030N
Plus VAT and postage, although two boxes would be post free, but I don't get through many rods in the course of a year, but always tend to check up how much they are per rod before buying.

5KG of 2.5mm around 330 rods per box approx.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

I visited BOC today to collect a mig welder that had been repaired, I spent 10 minutes or so gawping at all the gear for sale hehehe....They're selling 6013's, 7018's, etc. 5kg boxes ranging from £29.00 - £47! Are these electrodes any good or have they become rebranded cheapo rods?

 

[keith19]

I must say you are getting those Fincords cheap, most places charge around what they quote on the link I posted. Around £50 a 5Kg box, posted.
When you mention your BOC visit, were those Murex rods you saw? They were always a decent rod, don't know if they get them made elsewhere now, though. They always had a good rep.