seized threads

[frank horton]

It seems to me that there's a running problem with seized threads........
here's my take on stopping the problem........
Unless Locktite is needed every machine I own, gradually has each screw/bolt removed 1 at a time and put back with a little oil.........
every machine I repair get's the same treatment, anything I unscrew gets cleaned (carb cleaner) and oiled....as I've said before I repair garden machinery and other stuff......make's future jobs much easyer, better for me and the customer........
on small nut's and bolt plus screws up to 6mm, I replace where poss with st/steel fixings.....mostly somebody with the wrong size spanner has taken the corners off anyway......and the the nuts and bolts usually shear, especially around the cutting deck's.........it's hardley more expensive than BZP in the long run.....
For dodgy parts that are hardley removed especially on tractors I use Copper slip BUT it's modified ......
take some out of the new tin and mix in 80w-90 gearbox oil.......JUST A LITTLE....enough to make it like thick cream.......standard copper slip will harden with time and become usless.........the above mixture I learnt at a w/shop that repaired cranes and other equip used in sewerage plants........u can imagine what corrosion problems we had !!!!!!!!!! apart from the smell.........hahaha.......
anyway never had a problem when servicing the undercarrage, ever .....even after years, everything was easy to unscrew.......
On my car lift I keep a tray with dropper bottles filled with Diesel, eng oil, chainsaw oil and WD40........all within easy reach.........
the diesel is used alongside WD40 to soak seized stuff, eng oil as a light general lube and the chain saw oil for stuff that rotaes slowly.......
what u may ask rotates slowly, well for 1 thing the lift screw's on the ramp and the back gears on the lathe.......the lift screw nuts are plastic and still like new after 15 years.....
try it,
with the lathe running on slow with the back gear guard off just dribble a little c/saw oil on the gears, it wet's em down and stick's to the gears like CHILD SNOT......even after weeks of no use they are lubed.....
generally I use Synthetic engine oil in modern stuff except some motorcycles with wet clutches and the old / antique engine get semi-synth......I don't get involved with nackered engines ever.......
there is a crap story going around that 80w-90 g/box oil eats bronze bushings......well in 50 years I've never seen it......
as for lub in lathe gearbox's I only use RED auto transmission oil, I'm not gonna pay for the facory recomended over priced oil.........before u go off on one.......
when ur on the motorway next and that Merc Srinter comes past at 100mph with a ton of crap in the back........WELL they use auto trans fluid in their manuel g/boxes........mine did 200,000 miles with no trouble......

well story time is over and u will have gathered I'm a nutter....hahaha.....or just a little eccentric.....
thats my take on lube and has served me well over the years......
I hope this will get u thinking of corrosion........perhaps even help a little ?......

just a thought, u need to know that special dissimilar metals, esp st/steel need a special lube to stop corrosion........look it up, it's all "velly interesting" remember Hogan's Hero's........
g/bye for now, it's Latte time.............Frank

 

[frank horton]

PS,,,,should have said that Auto Trans fluid is used mainly for it's ANTI FROTHING ability's.........frank........

 

[optima21]

there is a crap story going around that 80w-90 g/box oil eats bronze bushings......well in 50 years I've never seen it......

GL4 spec oil is fine, its the newer GL5 spec that aparently has the issues due to the additives in it. it can still be used but the brass/bronze components wear faster

I use Rocol Anti seize compound on cars, removing sized bolts is one of my pet hates on cars

https://www.rocol.com/products/copper-based-anti-seize-compound

think your option might work out a bit cheaper though

I've heard that stainless fasteners are more prone to galling and seizing than steel fasteners, but the branded stainless anti seize compounds are eye wateringly expensive.

 

[MattF]

GL4 spec oil is fine, its the newer GL5 spec that aparently has the issues due to the additives in it. it can still be used but the brass/bronze components wear faster.

Doesn't it degrade the metal, rather than just causing excessive wear?

 

[wookie]

I've heard that stainless fasteners are more prone to galling and seizing than steel fasteners, but the branded stainless anti seize compounds are eye wateringly expensive.

They are far more prone to galling and they snap easier as well when trying to undo later, I generally use denso paste on the threads before assembly, it makes a massive difference to undoing them later.

I think my least favourite combination is stainless and ally in a marine enviroment, you have to really try hard not to snap the fixings.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Good post.

well story time is over and u will have gathered I'm a nutter....hahaha.....or just a little eccentric.....

And there's nothing 'loony' about regular preventative maintenance.

 

[gordon stephenson]

My Volvo 760 Turbo had auto transmission fluid in the manual gear box as original spec, Stainless bolts only usually "pick up" when used with stainless nuts etc,

 

[frank horton]

well nobody has bitten my head off yet........hahaha........
will look into this GL5 spec oil.........I buy my gear oil in 60litre drums from the tractor place........everything is old school.......u can even buy UNF, UNC and some Whit nut's and bolts there.....
there's nowhere else, in fact my engine oils are bought from the supermarket's when on special......often, 15w-40 turbo D, synth engine oil, only Shell, Elf etc etc comes in around €22-24 for 5 litres on special which is good for here, no idea on costs in the UK............I normally clear the shelf.........hahaha.......
I only ever srew down and tighten st/steel nuts and bolts by hand....NEVER with an impact wrench, never a prob with galling when undoing after lube and my jobs include cutting deck constanly wet and covered in soggy grass....
when I have the chance I increase the dia of the bolts from say 8mm to 10 so that the shear strength is increased especially around blade towers on mowers......ur on a hiding to nothing there.......also because u need to drill out the old steel bolts from the ally casting, therefore easy to go up in size........
have a good weekend ...........Frank

 

[slim_boy_fat]

.....no idea on costs in the UK....

Your avatar says you're in Manchester, where are you located in real life?

 

[CompoSimmonite]

I thought the actual copper in Copaslip was the antiseize aspect and the oil was just the "carrier" so it didn't matter how thick it was.

 

[optima21]

Doesn't it degrade the metal, rather than just causing excessive wear?

not sure, just know that old gearboxes are happier with GL4 spec oil, so I'll stick with that.

 

[Olderisbetter]

I use rocol anti seize copper slip in a tin on most threads and i do water it down with gear oil on occasion, After looking at the threads on my beetle front suspension mounting points yeasterday i think copper slip might have saved the threads from rusting up if applied from new, as with most things in life prevention is better than cure....Good info there Frank

 

[frank horton]

Slim boy fat,
well, when I joined I somehow got the impression that oversea's membership was banned.........seemingly not...........Manchester was my home in another life........still use that address for my ebay purchases.......
plan to change my avatar and add a photo.......

when we used copper slip on the cranes we found that a lot of the good stuff got wiped off as we screwed the parts in, by adding oil it helped to keep things wet.......
have seen copperslip used on the backing of disc brake pads and in stationary situations, it dries out and flakes off........
Use what suit's u, anything is better than nothing eh.........
Frank

 

[gordon stephenson]

According to ICI tribologist that I asked years ago about manual gearboxes using ATF, He said because of the very low viscosity it will get into bearings etc with vey small clearances,

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I just spent 10 minutes heating up a nut on a Renault Trafic handbrake adjuster as it wouldn't move, got it glowing dull red and it still wouldn't move, just about to cut it off and replace the whole assembly when I discovered it's not a nut but a bush that slides along the flats on the threaded adjuster .

 

[frank horton]

Wendelspanswi,
these car designer's are out to get U..........hahaha.....
frank

 

[wookie]

According to ICI tribologist that I asked years ago about manual gearboxes using ATF, He said because of the very low viscosity it will get into bearings etc with vey small clearances,

Just don't go putting ATF in a LT77 gearbox, many a Rover SD1 suffered gearbox problems due to ATF being too thin. The consensus is to use a decent quality engine oil such as Mobil1 or Castrol RS fully synthetic 0W40 or 5W40.

 

[GW8IZR]

Just don't go putting ATF in a LT77 gearbox, many a Rover SD1 suffered gearbox problems due to ATF being too thin. The consensus is to use a decent quality engine oil such as Mobil1 or Castrol RS fully synthetic 0W40 or 5W40.

I asked Ian Ashcroft about this when he rebuilt mine and he recommended ATF Dextron 3, he seems to know what he is doing?

 

[wookie]

I asked Ian Ashcroft about this when he rebuilt mine and he recommended ATF Dextron 3, he seems to know what he is doing?

Fair enough but everybody I've ever known have anything to do with the LT77 box has always warned me away from ATF, but if it works for you fair do's, however I'll be sticking with engine oil after I rebuild my latest LT77 powered vehicle, it's got the classic notchy change when cold but that is how it was when I bought the car.

Other vehicles I've owned with the LT77 have been great with engine oil in the box.

 

[GW8IZR]

Fair enough but everybody I've ever known have anything to do with the LT77 box has always warned me away from ATF, but if it works for you fair do's, however I'll be sticking with engine oil after I rebuild my latest LT77 powered vehicle, it's got the classic notchy change when cold but that is how it was when I bought the car.

Other vehicles I've owned with the LT77 have been great with engine oil in the box.

I don't know, I read all sorts of stuff on line and in the end asked him 'cos he's re manufactured loads of them, I asked him if there was any benefit in 'special' or 'different' oil and he said nope.. what it says in the manual. I suppose he could be saving himself from hassle by just sticking to the recommended oil but it was face to face I'd say he just reckoned it was the stuff to use. I wouldn't say the shift is at all notchy hot or cold bearing in mind its got a yard and a half of stick on it ;-)
before rebuild it had had a fairly hard life with three or four big diesels in front of it and eventually the 4.6 V8.

Only rebuilt cos the mainshaft / transfer gear splines were worn and thats a known issue, being only vaguely splash lubricated by transfer box gear oil, otherwise it was in perfect condition. Anyway its got a nice easy life since it had its new mainshaft with just a tdi turning the cogs.