Scratch start TIG on R Tech 180 MIG

[doubleboost]

I did a video on this very subject
Inverter welders are great for scratch start
This method is still widely used in industry
Some very nice weldes are produced

 

[Munkul]

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/tig-torch-wp26-4m-flexi-head/

So what is the gas line for and the button on the handle? My assumption was the button would open the gas valve?

That WP26 torch is designed for "proper" TIG welding sets which have high frequency start, and a gas solenoid in the machine. You press the button, it starts the gas and the arc all automatically, and with another push of a button, it ends the arc, leaves the gas on for a bit longer to keep the hot bit purged, all automatically. A good set lets you adjust pretty much everything about this process, from pre-gas, start amps, ramp up, ramp up time, ramp down, ramp down time, end current, end time, end gas... and that's just the basic settings you'd expect on most good sets.

With a scratch start set, you light up the tungsten like a stick rod, and YOU have to turn the gas on with the valve before hand, end the arc by pulling away, and then switch the gas off afterward.

Now I've only used one lift-arc set, it's my JASIC 160, but it had pre-set timings and sequences. Switch on gas, touch tungsten to workpeice, and lift off. The arc ignites, ramps up, and you weld away. To finish, you close the arc up real close, and the machine senses this and ramps down and ends the arc itself. Makes a big difference on stainless being able to control the gas flow after the arc extinguishes. Most decent stick inverters offer lift arc as a feature these days.

 

[123hotchef]

Ah all becomes clear now, I had assumed wrongly it was a valved torch - so my mistake - and thank you for pointing this out- its a steep learning curve sometimes.

I am selling a scratch start kit in the for sale section if you have not purchased one yet

 

[Lazurus]

That WP26 torch is designed for "proper" TIG welding sets which have high frequency start, and a gas solenoid in the machine. You press the button, it starts the gas and the arc all automatically, and with another push of a button, it ends the arc, leaves the gas on for a bit longer to keep the hot bit purged, all automatically. A good set lets you adjust pretty much everything about this process, from pre-gas, start amps, ramp up, ramp up time, ramp down, ramp down time, end current, end time, end gas... and that's just the basic settings you'd expect on most good sets.

With a scratch start set, you light up the tungsten like a stick rod, and YOU have to turn the gas on with the valve before hand, end the arc by pulling away, and then switch the gas off afterward.

Now I've only used one lift-arc set, it's my JASIC 160, but it had pre-set timings and sequences. Switch on gas, touch tungsten to workpeice, and lift off. The arc ignites, ramps up, and you weld away. To finish, you close the arc up real close, and the machine senses this and ramps down and ends the arc itself. Makes a big difference on stainless being able to control the gas flow after the arc extinguishes. Most decent stick inverters offer lift arc as a feature these days.

Oh well lesson learned, purchased and sold in good faith, watch out in the for sale section soon Lol.

 

[Lazurus]

I did a video on this very subject
Inverter welders are great for scratch start
This method is still widely used in industry
Some very nice weldes are produced

I did search this morning but couldnt find that one John.

 

[doubleboost]

 

[Lazurus]

Thanks John, as always a great video straight to the point.

 

[Richard.]

You don’t ‘need’ a valved tig torch. You can quite easily do scratch start tig by plumbing your torch gas line into an in-line valve just before it goes to the reg. turn the gas on and off at the valve there instead. A valved torch is only convenient because the valve is on the handle but in reality it can be anywhere along the gas line. For £30 you’ve bought an item that will work fine. Just plug the gas line straight into a flow meter if you like and turn it on and off there.

 

[Lazurus]

Done a little more research and gonna give it a go, depending on the internals of the torch I may put a needle valve into the body or gas line to be more convinient - just like to tinker me........

 

[Lazurus]

Ok the new torch head turned up this morning with gas valve fitted, simple job to change it over and put a smaller handle on to. So now good to go fro some old style scratch tig...... I may even post a picture of the first attempts at any sort of tig, let alone scratch. Also got a stubby gas valve kit as it was a offer on Flea Bay. Watch this space.

 

[Lazurus]

Ok no laughing but these are the first attempts at scratchy tig ran a couple of simple beads the tried a lap joint and it went porus. What am I doing wrong. 1.6 tungsten and rod 10 lpm argon.

 

[Richard.]

Whatever that is on the plate?? Look at what it’s done to your welding. Porosity!!
Don’t bother with lap joints. You need a lot more practice at beads on plate and keeping things clean

 

[Lazurus]

Metal was flap disk shiny when I started I think any marks stains were after the weld. I did chuck them outside the shop to cool so could have picked something up. I seemed to have problems keeping a steady arc. I don't know the amps as on the r tech 160 it only shows when your actually welding around 40amps at a guess.

 

[Lazurus]

Another go at scratch start, it's not east is it?

 

[123hotchef]

Another go at scratch start, it's not east is it?View attachment 185907View attachment 185908View attachment 185909

yeh but when u get good at that and move on the HF u will be great at tig

 

[Lazurus]

yeh but when u get good at that and move on the HF u will be great at tig

Better start saving

 

[Kent]

erm... that WP26 torch shown above is not a valved torch, and therefore simply no good for your welder you'll have to faff about with connections and a new torch head with a valve etc...

A few things I would reccomend for beginning:

1. Start out on some thick-ish material. 2mm minimum, ideally 3mm... you're almost guaranteed to overheat anything thinner, and it lets you get on with making nice beads instead of cursing, until you get the hang of it.

2. Don't be cheap, buy some 1.6mm wire. You can't physically feed 0.8mm wire fast enough to keep up with any sensible job, and you can barely hold the stuff still in a gloved hand never mind feed it. Yes MIG wire will do it... but I thought you wanted to have a good time, and make some nice beads, not a miserable time 1kg of wire will last you a good long time and it's not expensive. It will also do most every job that you can think of.

no.5 ceramic will do just fine, No.7 is my preference for most jobs if I don't think about it.

On filler wire,
I have seen people twist up two strands on mig wire toincrease depodition. But only in a push

 

[Richard.]

Another go at scratch start, it's not east is it?View attachment 185907View attachment 185908View attachment 185909

Your Arc length is way too long.
Travel Speed way too slow.
It looks like you’ve been way too shy with the filler too.
Beads on plate
Tighten that arc right up
Pick up the travel rate and confidently fill that pool as You buz along. Much easier to show you than tell you mind but seriously leave the joints alone. Your slowing your progress down jumping a step ahead.

 

[Lazurus]

Your Arc length is way too long.
Travel Speed way too slow.
It looks like you’ve been way too shy with the filler too.
Beads on plate
Tighten that arc right up
Pick up the travel rate and confidently fill that pool as You buz along. Much easier to show you than tell you mind but seriously leave the joints alone. Your slowing your progress down jumping a step ahead.

Thanks Richard, yes sounds like the common mistakes for a beginner, had a little more stick out last night and turned the gas down a tad, this reduced the porosity and helped starting the arc, will have another go tonight with beads on a plate a see how it goes, thanks for the pointers. The struggle goes on.....

 

[Lazurus]

OK had another play last night, still got porosity and had to turn the gas way down (using gas leans) which helped a lot, used a 2.4 filler rod which also helped, just finding hands getting very hot can only do short runs - is this normal?