Rust, how too... Petrol tank.

[busastars]

Right just an update, Im having a go at the electrolosis route, I have Daz washing up powder so thats what im using, I dont have a stainless bar but have some thick metal bar cut of an old milk trolly. I dont a test piece on an old spaner and it seamed to work so here goes for the tank.

Just a few pics for you all to see my progress.

The Tank, so far leak free.

The top and inside.

The chemicals, best I use it as the wife thinks its an ornament

The bar with some hose to stop it grounding out.

The tank, all systems go.....

One thing I did notice on test run and also now is the charger does say fully charged, not sure why, hope its all good, got it set to 12v & high.

 

[busastars]

Two hours later and pulled the rod out, green & brown poop all on there and scooped the top off aswell so I think its working. Going to clean off every two hours I think and and leave it over night, tomorow ill do a fresh batch of water in there just to see what is happening.

I know there is verious tank seals out there but I have read on problems with them. What is done to an original tank because from new you can see steel inside. Is it some kind of zinc coating or something like that, can I do a similar type of coating inside like the way im doing things now.

 

[graffian]

You have no idea how well it's done doing it like that, unless you get a look inside with an endoscope.
The cleaning scheme for Kreem tank sealant seems the way to go, phosphoric acid wash and after a water wash to clean it acetone to dry it. The phosphoric acid returns it to clean grey steel pretty quickly and doesn't etch the steel
badly like hydrochloric acid.
Then I would go with por15 sealant, if you don't seal it you going to have surface rust and be continully getting filters full of powdery rust.

 

[busastars]

graffian, sorry but I dident understand most of that, ive never done this before so dont understand all the terms or names.

I need an idiot explanation :lol:

 

[graffian]

Ok
Kreem is a yank made tank sealant. It was used on every tank by my local chop shop as bare steel really needs some coating. But I got asked to look at quite a few bikes over the years, and the coating come away blocking the outlet. When Keith first started selling Kreem he took a new sporty tank off the shelf and drilled holes all over it, then sealed it and it didn't leak.
The tank sealant kit comes with a bottle of phosphoric acid, you almost fill the tank with water, then chuck the acid in and it etches the tank clean, removing all traces of rust and weld scale.
After draining the acid/water you have to wash the tank with water, in hot weather it will rust before you eyes when you do this, after draining the water you chuck in 250ml of acetone which dries the tank.

Now your tank is ready for sealing.

I once bought a full Kreem kit, after I found out what was in them I bought the acid, acetone and sealer on their own. But I was nerver happy about using Kreem so went back to petseal, not to happy with that. I haven't used POR15 anything like the number of times I used Kreem but my own GSX had it done 10 years or so ago and it's still OK, my SILs LC was done about the same time and it is still OK. POR15 is available from frosts? For a while I used sealer made by Valentines or PPG[one of the big name paint makers], I got it from a glassfibre place, they had made boat fuel tanks for a while and sealed them with it.

I used to buy my phosphoric acid from my village chemist, but the new owner wants loads of money for it, so I have been using milkstone remover from a dairy farm on steel parts as a derustant. Milkstone remover varies in it's constituants. The one the local farm uses is 15% phosphoric acid, but has red stuff and leaves red scum on parts. I used the acid from the chemist and it always got emptied in to a big plastic drum and gradually it got diluted to the extent that you now have to leave parts in it for maybe a few weeks to remove rust. it still works but takes a long time.

still clear as mud?

 

[busastars]

Ahh right that made more sence I think, sorry I get lost in all tech terms.

So how I understand now in basic terms this is what I need to do.

1: once ive finished blast/wash everything out.
2: Straight away pour 250ml of acetone (Is this nail varnish remover?) into the tank & shake round. Do I pour it out or will it evaporate?
3: I probably will use petseal as I can get that local and from what I can see its the cheapest thing.

And finaly Job done

Or am I compleatly wrong?

Sorry....

 

[graffian]

Yes thats about right,
You need to clean the tank of any scum from you electrolysis then acid clean it.
The acetone absorbs the water so when you pour the acteone out of the tankt your pouring away nearly all the water, the remaining acetone evaporates pretty quick.

I would buy POR15 rather than petseal. If they do a prep kit[acid and acetone] your propbably better off buying the kit if your not sure about it.

It's a job which needs doing right as it's a lot more work doing it a second time. Methylene Chloride removes Petseal, you might need to know that. I don't recognise that tank, can't you get a good one?

There is a yank company that acid clean tanks, then coat them with a baked finish. I wonder if there is a company over here that does the same?
I have a baddly sealed Velo tank and am dreading it going, it obviously wasn't acid cleaned and has rusted under the POR15.

 

[busastars]

Just thinking of cost and local avalibility for the Petseal, M&P/Busters do the large 500ml for £20 the 250ml is only a couple of pound cheaper. Im gessing Thunderoad near me will have some at competative price.

The tank is an NSR250 mc16, I could have had the bike of a friend about a year ago but the tank put me off, I couldent leave the bike there any longer, I hate watching things rot. Well in a year of keeping my eyes open (always on ebay) not one tank has come up, no other tank will fit the bike as later models have a much wider frame. I have had someone contact me with a tank but its much worse than what I have.

I need to wait till the 20th before I can get some stuff so what I may do in the mean time is leave the tank with some old engine oil in there to stop it rusting after I finish. Would get the stuff now but im a little unemployed

Ive done six hours cleaning the rod every two hours and scooping the gunk out of the top. I have done fresh water/powder change in the tank an will leave it over night now. I know the water/powder wouldent need changing but wanted to see the inside for myself. Alot seems to be removing or tuning into sludge, the tank is still water tight, think thats a big bonus and just cought the tank in time.

Thanks all for your help.

 

[dazzis]

keep us updated on how its going interesting thrad

if you use petseal follow the destructions to the letter, especially the bit about sloshing it round, as ive seen a few where the whole lot was just a big blob in the bottom

 

[busastars]

Just wondering, if I get it all cleaned out but need to wait a couple of weeks before I can get some petseal etc is there any house hold products I can fill the tank with to stop it rusting?


Its still on charge,lol, ive been cleaning it reguarly and scooping out all the rust with a spoon, got loads out so far, may do it for a few more days now.

 

[dazzis]

quite scary how much comes out in't it, try parrafin at least in a few weeks you'll have a couple of gallons fer engine n frame cleanin, but if you have to weld it dont use parrafin fer leak testing as it hurts

i would dry it with a hair dryer till its totally dry then seal the filler n tap holes with tape then do a bit more electrolysis (if its started to rust again) when you get the petseal hth

 

[busastars]

18 lieters of parafin would coast the same as petseal so thats out of the window. Was looking to find something in the house that I can fill the tank with till I can aford some petseal. I can bring the tank in the house into the warm and maybe put some oil in there, swill around everyday maybe. Does that sound ok?

 

[dazzis]

oil might have an adverse effect on the petseal , dry it n seal the openings with tape

 

[Bsmith]

Hi, I'm interested in your post as I never heard of electrolosis before. Looks like its quite a home make set up with a battery charger and a bent insulated rod. How does this work plz? Does it loosen rust scale from inside your tank? Is the 12v negative attatched to the tank body? Many thanks, Brian (",).

 

[steveo3002]

im not sure electrolosis will work on a tank

the parts need to be in line of sight of the anode ...so unless you could carefully bend a bar so it o pokes into the filler cap??

afterwards it needs a wire brushing to shift the filth ..so again not ideal , although you could combine it with the cement mixer and gravel idea

 

[rtcosic]

Hi, I'm interested in your post as I never heard of electrolosis before.

Search is your friend

 

[rtcosic]

the parts need to be in line of sight of the anode ...so unless you could carefully bend a bar so it pokes into the filler cap??

Er, post number 21?

'Gravel', hot water and shakey, shakey should achieve a fair degree of removal of the products of electrolysis.

Finish off with phosphoric or citric acid based solution. I find a strong citric acid solution at high temperature (50 deg C or so) for a short period (30 minutes or so) and repeated if necessary combined with an occassional shakey, shakey usually works better than a weak ambient temperature solution over a long period.

BUT, I've never done the internals of a tank before!

 

[dazzis]

Er, post number 21?

'Gravel', hot water and shakey, shakey should achieve a fair degree of removal of the products of electrolysis.

Finish off with phosphoric or citric acid based solution. I find a strong citric acid solution at high temperature (50 deg C or so) for a short period (30 minutes or so) and repeated if necessary combined with an occassional shakey, shakey usually works better than a weak ambient temperature solution over a long period.

BUT, I've never done the internals of a tank before!

buy your citric acid from ebay or your local , polish shop they sell it as a citrus powder drink, if you visit a chemists they will only allow you to buy one packet ******s, something to do with junkies i believe