Rotivator

[fixerupper]

Last week my rotivator got stolen from our vegetable patch about a kilometre away from the village ......Any a friend of mine rang up and offered me his dads old one for free


Anyway I get it home ...and its old but not done much work ,it's been stuck in a workshop since his father died ....the tank had been left with two stroke in it ,that had turned into a think gunk and about half an inch of flakey stuff in the bottom of the tank some boiling water and drain cleaner seems to be shifting that ......air filter was clean as a whistle and the oil in it looked like the day it was filled ...however the carb was full of goo and took a bit of cleaning ...today I rigged up a squeezy bottle and a bit of tube as temporary tank and tried to fire it up ...no go ...I have a spark and fuel seems to be getting into the chamber ...the thing about this machine is it does not have recoil ...so you have to wind the cord around the pulley and yank it ...ok but the pulley is horizontal and I find it very awkward, I just don't seem to get it going fast enough to fire up ..my cordless drill with 18 mm socket fitted with a bolt will turn it over with the plug out really well and show a good strong spark but , not with it in ...has anyone tried to use a cordless rattle gun on something like this , would it have enough ooommph to turn over a 3 or 4 hp engine ?....I'm getting to old for pull start stuff and this one is a killer ...if it worked I could electric start all my kit ....

 

[frank horton]

Fixer upper,
If I were there I'd pop over and help u........
not home at the moment or I'd send a photo......

guess u got good compression....?
u can't use air guns or anything with a hammer action, ask me how I know.....hahaha.....

anyway for stubborn engines I use an old type Mini/Cortina inertia starter.......
I converted the end to take an 1/2 socket.......this starter is fitted to a bar with a solenoid button so u can hold the long handle bolted to the starter via the original holes and try to start it on ur own......jump leads to ur car or battery......
this even works for starting small Diesel engines......
I find that turning the engine over with the plug out for a min settles everything esp 4strokes....
then get somebody in ur case to squirt a little two-stroke mix down the carb....just a whiff really......usually this'll get em running.....
never use easy start fluid.....
obviously make sure the engine is stable and ur well braced as there can be a bit of a kick back when it all takes off...sounds bad but easy really....
if the engine runs it'll take over the starter so I just lift it off....noisy, grating the socket but it'll get the job done.......
hope this'll help.......

 

[fixerupper]

So I'll have to find a starter motor ...Thanks for that Frank ...I could take the one of me old scrap Volvo...

 

[gaz1]

cant even tell what cultivator you have due to small pics you have up of it

ive tried a battery drill to turn it over but if it kicks on youu need to yank it off without stopping that drill

try some fuel in carb and try a start sometimes gets it going with pull through i find most of the time it drains back and a get to start until ive done that crap in the fuel tank might have pulled through but also a back flush can shift it

 

[fizzy]

You say the oil in it was clean? Is that gearbox oil or motor oil? Could it be a 4 stroke?

 

[merryman]

I'm a bit puzzled by your first post, if it has two stroke mix in the fuel tank, it won't have oil in the engine.

Minarelli did make good two strokes, in fact one of the most common Chinese scooter engines is a Minarelli clone.

My personal starting fluid of choice is gas from a gas blowlamp down the intake as it can't "wet the plug" if you squirt too much in, and doesn't remove oil from the cylinder walls like ether based starting fluid does. Rope starts are exactly the same as the recoil, the only difference is the rope winds itself back in on a recoil. You need it long enough to pull the engine over enough times, but short enough to ensure it comes away before you run out of pull.

 

[jordhandson]

Fixer upper,
If I were there I'd pop over and help u........
not home at the moment or I'd send a photo......

guess u got good compression....?
u can't use air guns or anything with a hammer action, ask me how I know.....hahaha.....

anyway for stubborn engines I use an old type Mini/Cortina inertia starter.......
I converted the end to take an 1/2 socket.......this starter is fitted to a bar with a solenoid button so u can hold the long handle bolted to the starter via the original holes and try to start it on ur own......jump leads to ur car or battery......
this even works for starting small Diesel engines......
I find that turning the engine over with the plug out for a min settles everything esp 4strokes....
then get somebody in ur case to squirt a little two-stroke mix down the carb....just a whiff really......usually this'll get em running.....
never use easy start fluid.....
obviously make sure the engine is stable and ur well braced as there can be a bit of a kick back when it all takes off...sounds bad but easy really....
if the engine runs it'll take over the starter so I just lift it off....noisy, grating the socket but it'll get the job done.......
hope this'll help.......

What a great idea father got a couple old mixers and I have the same problem not enough strength after 4 or 5 pulls. Thats another project in the box

Cheers for posting

 

[Rig Pig]

Try a new spark plug, old 2 stroke plugs that spark nicely outside an engine have a habit of not sparking as well under compression.
Also check the carb diaphragm.

 

[mike 109444]

Get your self over to mustie1 on youtube. That stuff is his bag and such a nice guy to watch.

 

[fixerupper]

Thanks for all the responses .sorry about the thumbnails gaz1...if you double click'em do they get bigger, I was saving bandwidth ...It was the oil in the air filter that looked so clean fizzy.
Yes merryman rope or recoil it's me that has run out of pull..And rig pig a new plug was the first thing I did . I think the carb needs more investigating ..I'm gonna put this thing aside for a day or two ...Grapes to prune and a report about the stolen machine to the agricultural police to write and deliver ,...I'm into town on Friday ..to get an inline fuel filter , some fuel pipe , tank tap..Ive contacted the makers for a manual ...all my other two stroke stuff brushcutter, saws, pump, uses 50:1 but you never know , my first saw was 20:1...

 

[frank horton]

fixer upper, just to help.....
contaminated plugs are mainly when used on this cxxl petrol we get nowadays....something likes to eat at the inside insulation......but really old ones can be bad as well.....if its been stored for years prob the old style petrol......
for me if it's modern and won't start it gets a new plug anyway....not wasting my time to save a couple of euro's...
get loads of machines in after the winter with this problem...I buy plugs for stock by the dozen...
use the old plugs as sea fishing weights--don't care if I loose em..got a buckets full...hahaha...
also have said before, I now only use 98 octane petrol....some but not always there's none of this veggie rubbish in it (ethanol I think, collects water and eats metal !!!!) ask Ducati.....
everything I work on starts and runs better on the 98.....
the older engines tend to 25/1 but I only use synthetic 2 stroke oil now......50/1.....
once engines can be started anytime I drain the fuel after a demo for the client.....
not under load 50/1 is ok for short periods and synth is far superior to the mineral types of oil...
both in lube and plug contamination....
as for carbs, using a little fuel down the hole to get em running, after they start this way then look at the carb....for me they run for a few secs....but it's the starting very time thats important at this stage of the game....after that look at the carb.....
I bought a large ultra sonic cleaner cos I get so many too clean.....soaking the stripped out carb in petrol won't always clean them prop....even proper carb aerosol cleaner struggles....
without the proper kit just pull a wire from a hand wire brush and have a poke about just don't snap the wire....anything is better than nothing....

out of interest, on these modern so called clean engines.....
once they are a couple of years old, even Honda's sometimes... they get diff to start and idle....
have found that cos of the emissions req by the know-nothing prats in Euro-land the slow run jets are to small.....
I clean the carbs first then with a micro drill find the size of the jet then go up 2 sizes...
say from 0.6mm to 0.7...missing out 0.65, after that they run just fine....and I've done hundreds...

did I say getting married in Vryses this June......
enjoy the market....oh happy days......

 

[fenman]

Fixer upper,
If I were there I'd pop over and help u........
not home at the moment or I'd send a photo......

guess u got good compression....?
u can't use air guns or anything with a hammer action, ask me how I know.....hahaha.....

anyway for stubborn engines I use an old type Mini/Cortina inertia starter.......
I converted the end to take an 1/2 socket.......this starter is fitted to a bar with a solenoid button so u can hold the long handle bolted to the starter via the original holes and try to start it on ur own......jump leads to ur car or battery......
this even works for starting small Diesel engines......
I find that turning the engine over with the plug out for a min settles everything esp 4strokes....
then get somebody in ur case to squirt a little two-stroke mix down the carb....just a whiff really......usually this'll get em running.....
never use easy start fluid.....
obviously make sure the engine is stable and ur well braced as there can be a bit of a kick back when it all takes off...sounds bad but easy really....
if the engine runs it'll take over the starter so I just lift it off....noisy, grating the socket but it'll get the job done.......
hope this'll help.......

can we have some pics please

 

[Migmac]

Try a shorter pull rope. To long a one makes things awkward.

 

[fixerupper]

Up date ...IT RUNS!....I know I said I was'nt gonna touch it today ...but while the expresso was expressing first thing ..I whipped the carb off and stuck it in a plastic pot full a clean petrol to soak ...Then fortified with coffee I stripped it and cleaned it ...popped it back on and bingo she fired up ...with the old plug that came with it , (the new plug sparks but won't fire?) ...It runs fine on half choke but when I open the choke completely, it runs faster then if I start to close the throttle to slow it to tick over it cuts out ...so it needs a bit of tweaking ...next thing is to refit the cleaned out tank get a new tank tap ,inline filter and a bit of new fuel pipe ..... but I'm more optimistic about it now ...thanks for your encouragement ....

 

[fixerupper]

Right heres a thing ....I can get this rotivator started and running on choke ..but as I close the choke the engine speed picks up and then the thing cuts out .....so I did a bit of reading up about carbs ...this carb has a main jet adjustment thing on the bottom of the float bowl ...general advice from utubers is screw it in until it closes and then unscrew it 1and a 1/2 turns ...if I do that the fuel just pours out ...I'm confused ...

 

[8ob]

Right heres a thing ....I can get this rotivator started and running on choke ..but as I close the choke the engine speed picks up and then the thing cuts out .....so I did a bit of reading up about carbs ...this carb has a main jet adjustment thing on the bottom of the float bowl ...general advice from utubers is screw it in until it closes and then unscrew it 1and a 1/2 turns ...if I do that the fuel just pours out ...I'm confused ...View attachment 171981 View attachment 171982

Looks like the fuel drain to me, highly unlikely to have an adjustable main jet on a stationary four stroke. Pilot jet will be adjustable but that only deals with tickover mixture, if I were you I would remove carb and leave it soaking in brake cleaner overnight, strip it and give it a good blast with an air gun.

Bob

 

[Seadog]

It's usual to have an idle jet with its own adjuster.

 

[merryman]

Sadly, that knurled thing is a bleed screw. A lot of Tecumseh carbs do have the main jet adjuster poking out through the float bowl holding screw, but not the carb on yours. I have found on Del-Orto carbs, you can do as you like but they refuse to run right after a long lay up, Honda GXs can be the same. After several hours of running they go back to normal, I think it is, as Frank Horton wrote, emission regs requiring small jet orifices which don't take to not being used, which is exactly what you get with Tillers, which are used for a couple of weeks in spring, then laid up, or emergency generators.

 

[fixerupper]

Right well it's all back together and it working fine. yesterday .I gave the tank another clean out this time with caustic soda drain cleaner a length of chain , got the main jet adjusted, after reading about the three versions Dellorto carbs on these machines, I suddenly had a brain wave and saw where I was going wrong..... Today I refitted the tank including a new tap and fuel pipe and inline filter, mixed up some fresh 25:1 , and just as I was gonna fire it up ...the Head man of the village Michaelis turned up to see what I was doing ...away fingers crossed ,first pull and it fired up ...closed the choke and it just purred away ...he was impressed... next job is to get it out on the land and see if it rotivates ....thanks all for your help... ....

 

[gaz1]

just becareful of rocks and stones with those and mine does it hit a stone and it can come out of the ground

it finds other muscles you dont know about when using one of them

hold onto it tightly give a wiggle when needed so it moves down to rotivate more soil

look up the merry tiller rotivator it has loads of adaptions on it might give you some projects to build on with yours though