Rotary Controller

[northwest]

I have one of Steve Ward's rotary controllers https://www.worldofward.com/ and on the odd occasion I use it it is brilliant, nothing else comes close for simplicity cost and functionality:



Little while back went to use it and it wouldn't work!, really quite peeved I was so I contacted Steve Ward. His response was:"you don't live far away, you can drop it off if you want!". Not one to refuse an invitation to meet someone I think is interesting I had my friend drive me over to his house last Friday.

What a really great guy, he replaced every component in my controller and rebuilt it and tested it for me while I waited AND wouldn't take money, but then he turned into a monster and showed me this fitted to his own lathe:

I have to have one, as about half of my work on the lathe is screwcutting it would be a game changer for me, you can do straight forward threads, left hand threads and multistart threads at the push of a button and any thread size or pitch you want. You could make some real bastrard threads without effort. Steve has written the software but I really need to get him to make it into a kit.

Edit: you can buy the board and most of the interface from ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164781208092 but Steve has re-written the software and it is much more functional (it is his day job) and has said it is no bother to use his software, which is freely available (on Github I believe). I would like him to make a complete kit and make it available to the UK audience.

 

[Scalarocco]

The Clough42 system is very impressive. I binge-watched the series last week. You can buy the kit on ebay but, as ever, the shipping fees are extortionate. Still tempted though...

 

[northwest]

You can buy the kit on ebay but, as ever, the shipping fees are extortionate.

yes but you won't get mugged by Royal Mail's "handling fee" because I can guarantee any package from the US is stopped and duty applied but not on the ebay global shipping program. That makes it a little more palatable

 

[Scalarocco]

Fair enough, but I suppose I've become too used to the free shipping that any old tat from the far east arrives by. £40 for the interface and controller board feels like excellent value but whacking on nearly another 50% to post it here feels expensive. I know that isn't any fault of Clough42, but is a big part to play in why I shy away from buying anything from the USA. I just don't understand why Chinese tat can ship so cheaply? As an example, I looked at a Kromer cap that ships from America. £12 for the cap plus £20 for postage ffs. More than the item is worth!

 

[galooph]

Steve has re-written the software and it is much more functional (it is his day job) and has said it is no bother to use his software, which is freely available (on Github I believe)

That's good timing! I ordered all the bits for the Clough42 ELS a few days back I've only got a basic Sieg C6 and faffing with change gears is a pain!

Edit: If anyone wants the link to Steve's forked software, it's https://github.com/kwackers/electronic-leadscrew

 

[Agroshield]

Edit: If anyone wants the link to Steve's forked software...

Could you not link to the good version rather than the forked version?

 

[mtt.tr]

I worked out an els (the mathematical side and program) a number of years back but came to the conclusion of what's the point, might aswell go CNC.

 

[northwest]

Could you not link to the good version rather than the forked version?

The forked version (Steve's) is a much more mature and complete version especially with the multi-start thread feature (this is, for me an almost essential feature as it is the only way to create some breech locking mechanisms).

 

[northwest]

I worked out an els a number of years back but came to the conclusion of what's the point, might aswell go CNC.

I hate to disagree with you Matt but converting my M300 to CNC is a non starter, I would make un-useable a fast nimble machine. I need a machine with twiddly knobs on it for much of my work, besides I have an (in progress) CNC lathe next door.

A bit of a tale:
I went off to see a guy who had a beautiful factory with a dozen or so CNC mills and lathes in it, he had a programmer and a few people stacking the bar feeders up, reckoned he was a millionaire but couldn't afford to take his missus out for a meal.

Fast forward four or five years and I went back to see him, Total transformation, Gone were the fancy CNC machines and in their place a load of manual lathes and mills, he reckoned he had never been better off. Too much competition at the automated end with finer and finer margins, there is no machine yet made that can replace skill fully, yes, there are some smart machines out there but they have yet to replace that eye-interpretation-understanding-hand sequence that we humans are capable of. It appears to me that the most sucsessful people I come across have a good blend of both of these things, skill (manual machinery)and CNC. Not wholly one or the other.
I know a (CNC Based) company locally who are in trouble, most of their production staff have never turned so much as a bolt in a lathe so they have a distorted understanding of machining processes. This is just my experience and may be a distorted interpretation of reality, but I don't think it is.

 

[Agroshield]

...I would make un-useable a fast nimble machine.

With the ELS, do you still retain the ability to use the second shaft for sliding and surfacing feeds? Does the brainbox have the facility to know when it is feeding and when it is thread cutting? I would be uncomfortable having to use the leadscrew for anything other than screwcutting proper and it is just not possible to face using the leadscrew.

 

[northwest]

Yes you do, with the added bonus of being able to infinitely adjust the feed speed.

 

[Scalarocco]

Fair enough, but I suppose I've become too used to the free shipping that any old tat from the far east arrives by. £40 for the interface and controller board feels like excellent value but whacking on nearly another 50% to post it here feels expensive. I know that isn't any fault of Clough42, but is a big part to play in why I shy away from buying anything from the USA. I just don't understand why Chinese tat can ship so cheaply? As an example, I looked at a Kromer cap that ships from America. £12 for the cap plus £20 for postage ffs. More than the item is worth!

Just following on to this post, I ordered and received the launchpadxl board from Digikey. £40 + vat delivered, so £48 all-in. Conversely the clough42 interface and controller unit is on ebay and comes out also at £40...plus postage of £17.50 AND £14.50 import duties. £72 all in to get it to the UK. It's ordered now, but it does feel like I've had my pants pulled down...

 

[Munkul]

I hate to disagree with you Matt but converting my M300 to CNC is a non starter, I would make un-useable a fast nimble machine. I need a machine with twiddly knobs on it for much of my work, besides I have an (in progress) CNC lathe next door.

A bit of a tale:
I went off to see a guy who had a beautiful factory with a dozen or so CNC mills and lathes in it, he had a programmer and a few people stacking the bar feeders up, reckoned he was a millionaire but couldn't afford to take his missus out for a meal.

Fast forward four or five years and I went back to see him, Total transformation, Gone were the fancy CNC machines and in their place a load of manual lathes and mills, he reckoned he had never been better off. Too much competition at the automated end with finer and finer margins, there is no machine yet made that can replace skill fully, yes, there are some smart machines out there but they have yet to replace that eye-interpretation-understanding-hand sequence that we humans are capable of. It appears to me that the most sucsessful people I come across have a good blend of both of these things, skill (manual machinery)and CNC. Not wholly one or the other.
I know a (CNC Based) company locally who are in trouble, most of their production staff have never turned so much as a bolt in a lathe so they have a distorted understanding of machining processes. This is just my experience and may be a distorted interpretation of reality, but I don't think it is.

I don't buy into this in full, although I know the roots of the problem, and I'm in a pretty good position to share my opinion, as one of my guys is a "new school" CNC machinist/programmer.

Those who merely "operate" the machines without being trained as machinists don't really have any understanding of machining really... I think this is where some of the perception comes from that "CNC machinists are useless"

Those who program them, in order to do it truly effectively, have to have an intrinsic understanding of metal removal akin to anything done with manual machinery. I believe some programmers just don't have this instilled in them properly, and they'll never go far as a result.
Those who do have it, have to be even more multi-talented than manual machinists. Not only part setup, tooling, speeds and feeds, but to be fully conversant with the CAM software... which gives you a bewildering amount of ways to do a job. Their job is to navigate through this minefield and put in the best toolpaths that get the 3 key things done best: Speed, Accuracy/surface finish, and tool life.

My work mostly do one-offs and prototypes, so the machinist has a very tough job - making fixtures for organically designed parts takes loads of time, and each one-off has to have just his best stab at optimizing surface finish. And Haas controls aren't great for programming at the machine - it's all done through Fusion 360.

The best balance between manual and CNC comes IMHO from halfway machines like Harrison Alphas and XYZ Prototraks - they can be operated just as quickly as fully manual machines, yet have far more capability for contouring or tapers, etc. The people and shops who operate these machines never run out of work from MRO types, as they are so quick to adapt to different jobs.

 

[northwest]

Those who program them, in order to do it truly effectively, have to have an intrinsic understanding of metal removal akin to anything done with manual machinery. I believe some programmers just don't have this instilled in them properly, and they'll never go far as a result.
Those who do have it, have to be even more multi-talented than manual machinists. Not only part setup, tooling, speeds and feeds, but to be fully conversant with the CAM software... which gives you a bewildering amount of ways to do a job. Their job is to navigate through this minefield and put in the best toolpaths that get the 3 key things done best: Speed, Accuracy/surface finish, and tool life.

You are kicking an open door with me here, this is the point I was trying to make, explained far more eloquently than I.
Your last point, tool life, is by far and away the most difficult to achieve I think.

 

[Munkul]

By the way, thanks Northwest for bringing this neat controller to my attention, I'm building a stepper controlled rotary table at the moment myself and i have been umming and ahhinh over how to control it, up to now its been a self-program arduino vs a cheap ebay controller.
I've had a chat with Steve via email already and I'm pretty set on buying the boards, to use with a nema 34 and CLT86T stepper driver

 

[ukracer]

By the way, thanks Northwest for bringing this neat controller to my attention, I'm building a stepper controlled rotary table at the moment myself and i have been umming and ahhinh over how to control it, up to now its been a self-program arduino vs a cheap ebay controller.
I've had a chat with Steve via email already and I'm pretty set on buying the boards, to use with a nema 34 and CLT86T stepper driver

I have wanted one for a long time....its just that I don't really "need" one.

 

[Maker]

XYZ Prototraks

I've been playing with one of these at work recently, it's simultaneously bloody amazing, and the most frustrating thing in the world. I'm gonna have to find some servos for my mill now...

 

[Munkul]

This is how my rotary controller build is progressing. I installed a 60v power supply for the stepper driver, driving a NEMA 34 motor. There's a repurposed 19v printer power supply which supplies the Ward controller, and also a cheap ebay frequency generator. I have a 3 pole rotary switch to switch between controllers which feed the driver.
One kettle plug socket, and some nifty little wiring plugs and a wired extension keeps everything neat and tidy.