Right to repair, John Deere US

[julianthegypsy]

I been called a "Luddite" to my face over this very issue.

It is OK fixing nearly new cars with some retail value in them. But when a car is still servicable but old and worthless. All that is gonna happen is the average age of the vehicles in the "car park" will just get newer and more expensive - but there will be fewer of them. I know this is what the manufacturers would like and also governments dealing with carbon emmisions number crunching.

But allot of the motoring public just can't afford it - this will lead to "transport poverty". To go with fuel poverty - food poverty - domestic energy poverty - dental access poverty - healthcare poverty.

"You will have nothing and be happy" - which forum member on here said this? Whoever it was? He/she hit the nail right on the head!

This absolutely boils my yellow waste water. I've had to scrap two perfectly good cars that should have years of service left, because of stupid electronic problems that were ridiculously expensive to fix. If tractor manufacturers can sell the parts either new or service exchanged for a reasonable cost then auto makers certainly can, especially when you consider that their volumes are easily ten times those of tractors. If you told a farmer that his tractor was scrap at ten or fifteen years old, you'd never sell another one, end of, and the same should be true of cars.

 

[premmington]

This absolutely boils my yellow waste water. I've had to scrap two perfectly good cars that should have years of service left, because of stupid electronic problems that were ridiculously expensive to fix. If tractor manufacturers can sell the parts either new or service exchanged for a reasonable cost then auto makers certainly can, especially when you consider that their volumes are easily ten times those of tractors. If you told a farmer that his tractor was scrap at ten or fifteen years old, you'd never sell another one, end of, and the same should be true of cars.

The motoring public will wear it - they will. They love buying newer cars - most of them will "rent them on PHP" - mace themselves up on the drip for one (HP). People remortgage their houses for a new car. I've seen it....

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Mate has a BMW X5. 18 reg but because of Covid little used by previous owner and therefore has just token miles. It broke down before Xmas due to the fan belt tensioner failing. Took main agent three weeks to repair - the reason they gave was lack of qualified technicians (when did they stop being mechanics ?) to do the work.

 

[premmington]

Mate has a BMW X5. 18 reg but because of Covid little used by previous owner and therefore has just token miles. It broke down before Xmas due to the fan belt tensioner failing. Took main agent three weeks to repair - the reason they gave was lack of qualified technicians (when did they stop being mechanics ?) to do the work.

Only a three week wait - your mate did well! I have heard of far longer waiting times than that.

There is an industry shortage of people who do want to do the job.

 

[pedrobedro]

It is unreal how much it does actually cost to replace some of this failing new tech in sub five/six year old cars.

It costs a fortune just to replace a key for crying out loud, they should last the life of the vehicle.

 

[Ali]

Did that business of hiring out vintage machinery to farms (marketed as cheaper to run / easier to maintain) ever take off? I remember at least a couple of companies hiring out grey Fergies and the like.

I know a lot of farms still own and use older equipment already.

I don’t mean to be ignorant, I’m genuinely curious if this concept ‘works’ or if it would hold things up due to speed / increased operator hours / service regularity etc.

On the general subject, I do a lot of repairs to modern stuff where I make a working, but fugly fix as an “up yours” to the designer. Will try to find an example.

 

[mcostello]

From what I have heard John Dearly charges $250 USD just to hook up the harness to diagnose the problem.

 

[northwest]

People remortgage their houses for a new car. I've seen it....

They are off their rockers........



How much is your house worth? Oh I dunno, maybe three Range Rovers. Absolutely nuts.

 

[dobbslc]

They are off their rockers........



How much is your house worth? Oh I dunno, maybe three Range Rovers. Absolutely nuts.

It's scary that people this dumb can get a licence and drive about in a car, no wonder there's so many crashes!

 

[premmington]

It costs a fortune just to replace a key for crying out loud, they should last the life of the vehicle.

I don't sell too many keys to be honest - I think it is because they are so expensive and people manage with just one of them - if one goes wrong or gets lost.

Loose the last working key on a modern car and you "are in a world of hate"

 

[DennisCA]

No thanks to these modern things, my dads Massey Ferguson 65 Multipower is just fine.

 

[Geoffm]

When you need to go to the dealer and paay many dollars because you have changed a battery, or car tires, then the dealer locking has gone to far.
When we have had new cars before and so needed dealer service to keep warranties, the dealer costs were huge, service pretty average, etc. We have a superb mechanic over the road and I begrudge making a special trip into town,gett ing a lift back then repeating the exercise a few days later.

 

[Morris]

The motoring public will wear it - they will. They love buying newer cars - most of them will "rent them on PHP" - mace themselves up on the drip for one (HP). People remortgage their houses for a new car. I've seen it....

The motoring public are part of the problem. They blindly aim for the latest must have, frequently paying with money they haven't got, for a product that is often deeply flawed.
I was talking to a friend yesterday ( who was fitting a new rear exhaust and mot'ing my Sorrento) and he has had several customers (hes a one man band who just does repair/service work) that have bought Jaguar f-pace's with the 2 litre diesel in. One is already fubar at 5 years old and 60,000 miles. The others are rapidly trying to get rid after looking at reviews after buying. He has a customer with a new Transit that has had 2 engines in 35,000 miles.
How the hell do you get to this.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

If you told a farmer that his tractor was scrap at ten or fifteen years old, you'd never see the end of the day, end of, and the same should be true of cars.

FTFY...

 

[Blobber]

Its gone full circle, in the 70s it was not unusual to be rebuilding engines at 70/80 thousand miles, in the 80s/90s engines and the electronic bits were bullet proof doing starship mileage and now it doesnt seem to bother most folks that they get less than 100 thousand miles, thats not green at all!

 

[Kayos]

Given the choice between an older car/truck or something newer, got to say these days it's something newer

My new car, that may or may not break down and may or may not be difficult to repair, Vs an older car that will break down

As the years have passed, im less inclined to roll around on the drive fixing stuff, if it's a big/complicated repair I will just get them to give me something until it is fixed

And no, it's not about the latest must haves, it's about choice. I choose modern, reliable, comfortable with a 10" touch screen over old, unreliable and a distinct lack of touchscreen

 

[Fraserb]

Did that business of hiring out vintage machinery to farms (marketed as cheaper to run / easier to maintain) ever take off? I remember at least a couple of companies hiring out grey Fergies and the like.

I know a lot of farms still own and use older equipment already.

I don’t mean to be ignorant, I’m genuinely curious if this concept ‘works’ or if it would hold things up due to speed / increased operator hours / service regularity etc.

On the general subject, I do a lot of repairs to modern stuff where I make a working, but fugly fix as an “up yours” to the designer. Will try to find an example.

There's such a shortage of tractor drivers nowadays that you need the size and technology on modern machines to get the work done.

 

[premmington]

Given the choice between an older car/truck or something newer, got to say these days it's something newer

My new car, that may or may not break down and may or may not be difficult to repair, Vs an older car that will break down

As the years have passed, im less inclined to roll around on the drive fixing stuff, if it's a big/complicated repair I will just get them to give me something until it is fixed

And no, it's not about the latest must haves, it's about choice. I choose modern, reliable, comfortable with a 10" touch screen over old, unreliable and a distinct lack of touchscreen

It is the reason - they sell new cars is becasue old ones wear out!

 

[MetalMonkey]

Can't say I really find old cars unreliable - if we are talking about say ~20 years, I personally think that was about the peak of design for reliability without too much additional complexity.

I wouldn't consider wear or service items as being "unreliable", and they are generally easy and very cheap to replace on older vehicles.
For example I had a front flexi rot through on an exhaust, I was going to weld on a new one, but found I could pick an entire brand new front and centre section up with silencer for £15 locally (£30 on ebay). Took about 20 minutes to change it.
No idea what the cost or effort is on a current model of any brand - but I'm willing to bet a lot more of both.

With an older vehicle you pretty much know what you are getting in to - with owners forums any of the recalls, or common issues and faults are going well publicised.
A new vehicle is going to be somewhat of an unknown, and not everything is going to be covered under warranty either.

A new car should have the advantage of needing less maintenance, on the other hand when you look at things like DPF and DMF, those service costs and times can jump up very quickly.
An older vehicle might need a few more bits replacing from wear and tear - but they are usually a lot cheaper and quicker to do, and often easier access too.
If you are reasonably handy with the spanners, I reckon it might be a wash in terms of annual total time spent off the road.

My fleet is all old, 9 vehicles ranging from 20 - 46 years, some in regular use, some not.
I moved a 1998 diesel just before Christmas, it had been parked up for the last 5 years. Last filled with fuel in 2011.
I aired up the tyres, put on a new battery and it started second turn of the key. Don’t think you can get much more reliable than that!

 

[Morrisman]

This absolutely boils my yellow waste water. I've had to scrap two perfectly good cars that should have years of service left, because of stupid electronic problems that were ridiculously expensive to fix. If tractor manufacturers can sell the parts either new or service exchanged for a reasonable cost then auto makers certainly can, especially when you consider that their volumes are easily ten times those of tractors. If you told a farmer that his tractor was scrap at ten or fifteen years old, you'd never sell another one, end of, and the same should be true of cars.

My dad scrapped his 8 year old Hyundai because the ECU crapped out, supposedly due to a poor condition battery. It was autobox and would change gears as and when it felt like it. Local transmission 'expert' told him it would cost more to replace it ECU than the car was worth.