Restoring a pair of Wadkin PKs

  1. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    I bought these last year and I've just got them into the workshop. The tags on them indicate they were made around 1957 and 1958. The one with the DC brake on it was in work right up to me buying it and had a label on it indicating it was last serviced in 2017. The PK is a sliding table dimension saw, often used by pattern makers.

    P1080128.JPG

    They have been in the downstairs barn over winter so needed a bit of a clean up of some light rust, they are now in the upstairs workshop.

    Here's a video of a Canadian woodworker who is big fan of old British machines demonstrating the PK. He does some fantastic restorations, this vid is few years old so camera work a bit shaky at times, his latest video of a Robinson spindle moulder resto is much better.



    The idea is to get one working as soon as possible to replace my Wadkin AGS12 as I don't need two table saws and need space, and cash. I will then renovate the second before doubling back on the other and complete the restoration.

    So the first step is to select one to keep and repair anything not working. I have a spark coming around later today to check out the wiring. The motors are dual voltage so want to make sure they are set right before I stick 415v up 'em :) I also need another 16A socket for the new planer thicknesser so he can suss that out at the same time.

    The two were hoisted through the barn roof hatch into the workshop

    20201010_160711-01.jpeg

    And then given a bit of a light clean of surface rust and several layers of WD40, Gibbs, AC50 and dust.

    PK2165 is on the left, and PK2002 is on the right with the DC brake, this one was working up until got it.

    20201010_202226-01.jpeg

    Sliding table cleaned up

    20201012_174347-01.jpeg

    then the other half, I'll give it a proper clean later, the first intention is get it running.

    20201013_193516-01.jpeg

    This was in storage when I got it, it is also slightly unusual in that it has the optional extra 7.5HP motor rather than the standard 4HP.


    20201013_193535-01.jpeg

    here's the two extension tables that the fence extends onto when you fully back it off.

    20201012_145804-01.jpeg

    the one on the left has had some bodgery done to it. It should look like this with the last bit of the ruler engraved into it

    20201012_145815-01.jpeg

    unfortunately somebody has hacked it out to take a full 24" rule

    20201012_145819-01.jpeg

    I'll upload some more tomorrow to get it up to date, the Spark has just left and PK2002 is now up and running, we had to adjust the DC brake torque and timer, it now stops the blade in 8 seconds.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
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  2. Agroshield Member

    Messages:
    1,371
    Very nice saws.

    Where the scale has been removed, could you mill the base flat, then undercut it with a dovetail cutter and then JB weld in a piece of cast iron?

    It would look like a vertical version of half of one of those bow-tie-shaped things they use to repair cracks in wood.
     
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  3. julianf

    julianf Member

    Messages:
    5,061
    Location:
    devon, uk
    Inset a bit of engraved brass?
     
  4. maz0

    maz0 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    701
    Location:
    Central Scotland
    Lovely machines! I was just looking at some Axminster saws yesterday but I feel that its a bit like with the old lathes and mills, the old stuff seems better than the new ones! Keep the pics coming. :thumbup:
     
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  5. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    As the plate bolts to the back of the main table, I was thinking of just using a 24" rule and running it over into this stub table. This is a 2 foot SS rule, I shall ask my neighbour to take it to work and mill the metric scale off to fit the slot as they have a long bed milling machine. I work in metric but it wouldn't feel right so inched it will be.

    If that doesn't look right, given the bodger couldn't even get the sides straight, I will consider the options, both the above options are viable.

    Maybe that's why it was hacked out, to put a metric scale in?


    20201017_162555-01.jpeg

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  6. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    Here's some of the bits that came with them or I have acquired since. One of them had a blade on it, the other came with a set of 5 blades. They are not cheap as they rotate at 5000 rpm.


    20201011_145218-01.jpeg

    Here's the fences and one crown guard and arm, the other I had just cleaned and put on the machine. The crown guards and arms are often lost, being replaced with modern equivalents with dust collection built in. The fences are often cracked through misuse. I'm fortunate, one or two of the handles have been replaced with bolts but they are largely intact. I have a few imperial handles knocking about so may get lucky. One crown guard is not original, just a fabbed job, I may copy the original in brass or bronze to replace it.

    20201011_145230-01.jpeg

    Although I have one mitre, both quadrants are missing. A guy in Canada occasionally makes a batch of castings or finished quadrants, however this is very occasional. Mark a friend off another forum, knew I was looking for castings gave me a call. He runs Wadkin Restorations, the standard of his work is stunning. He lives not far from John Mills AKA Doubleboost and John has done a bit of work for Mark. Mark was getting a set of castings made, and the more the merrier as the price goes down. So I ordered two sets. The quadrants either go missing because they are not needed or get dropped and broken, they are cast iron and can be a bit delicate with sticky out bits. So Mark had them cast in Bronze, so aesthetically they will be stunning, they will be more durable and it is easier to get them cast, there are quite a few bronze foundries about due to sculpture casting etc.

    Once I have the saws up and finished, I'll machine them, here's one below. They are precision tools so the pivot holes etc have to be spot on, I have the drawings for one part, I'll probably borrow a quadrant to get the dims for the other.

    20201011_223014-01.jpeg

    Cheers
    Andy
     
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  7. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    Now I have one of them powered up and ready to go, its time to do a bit of routine maintenance on it. The table wasn't running as smoothly as it should, so I looked at the bearings. According to the manual, there should be 8 SKF RMS6 open bearings. I'm not sure when that manual was printed but both saws have RLS5 bearings and the pins would not support wider bearings so they must have changed. The older saw, PK2002 has had them replaced with sealed bearings at some point, some of the bearing are a little rattley, the other, the one I intend to keep, has open bearings in various states of repair, but has been maintained by some pillock with a toolbox full of hammers.

    The two saws differ under the rolling table slightly, PK2002 is unusual in that the grubs screws that locate the eccentric bearing pins are on top of the frame, whereas they are in the usual place, underneath on PK2165. mark who has renovated 7 PKs has never seen one with the grub screws on top, not that important however I think it explains what happened to PK2165 and the idiot who maintained it.

    The bearings spindles are eccentric, and once they are adjusted in the factory, a hole is drilled through the casting into the pin so that as long as that spindle stays in that position, if the bearings are every swapped you don't lose calibration. You can see two of the eight bed bearings below. The grub screw is underneath. There should be 2 small shim washers between bearing and casting to provide clearance and oil from the oiler shown feeds through an hole in the casting directly to the open bearings. Dust is kept out as the bearings are covered by the spindle on the outside and there is only a 0.2mm gap betwwen casting and bearing on the inside.

    20201013_150213-01.jpeg

    On the other one the grubs screws can be seen on top of the casting



    20201013_150156-01.jpeg

    On all eight of the bearings, the idiot had snapped off the tip of the grub screw and lost the shim washers. The oil galleries were also full of crud. So no oil would be getting through and the bearings were catching on the side of the casting. You can see the eccentric spindle below, and the snapped grub screw tip.

    20201016_090006-01.jpeg

    On the other saw, the shim washers were present, but the casting had been repaired at some point.

    20201013_204341-01.jpeg

    So, I have shim washers and new SKF bearings on the way for the one I'm keeping. I'll clean up and assess the others, some seem fine and buy some more to make up the balance for the other saw.

    I just have to make eight of these, but with a slightly longer body as the two machine have different length grub screws. I could shorten the existing screws by 1/4" but that is a bit of a bodge.

    20201016_090258-01.jpeg

    The thread is novel, its a BSPP G1/8, I have a die on its way from Tracy tools.

    sliding table grub screw.jpg


    A couple of the oilers may need replacing, or just may be jammed open with crud. I've cleaned some with a touch of compressed air, full of rubbish.

    Once this is done, the table should glide like silk, I'm guessing the idiot has mixed up the spindles too so may take a while to recalibrate it.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
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  8. barking mat

    barking mat Barking at Pigeons

    Messages:
    4,612
    Location:
    Brittany, The Arz Valley.
    Very nice...

    You meddling with wood I suppose.

    Nice looking bits of kit!
     
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  9. Agroshield Member

    Messages:
    1,371
    If you are smart, give him two and get him to make one imperial and one metric as the setup will be longer than the milling itself. Then you have both options available for an eventual resale.

    You can buy 1/8 BSP threaded rod (just the same as you can buy M6 or M8 threaded rod). It is used with munsen rings in pipe supports. See:

    https://www.bes.co.uk/threaded-rod-black-imperial-1m-x-1-8-bsp-9600/
     
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  10. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    Interesting, I have an account with BES, apart from the bit where its says " may be supplied hollow" :)
     
  11. mtt.tr

    mtt.tr Member

    Messages:
    4,052
    Essex England
    Just about the best era of saws.
     
  12. Agroshield Member

    Messages:
    1,371
    Sorry, missed that bit. They also sell (at nearly double the price) plated rod that has no mention of hollow:

    https://www.bes.co.uk/1-m-x-1-8in-bsp-threaded-rod-zinc-plated-imperial-9604/

    so a piece of 10mm rod and your Tracy die might be more economic. Check a BSP thread chart as the OD of your part is a little small.
     
  13. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    I was aware the part was smaller than the thread charts, I used thread charts and tpi gauges to find what thread it is in the first place.

    I'm guessing they used whatever 3/8" stock they had to hand, hence why its slightly smaller that the 9.728 in the charts.

    The threads are so fine that when you stick it in the lathe chuck, you flatten them, you could then chase it with a die but I have some 3/8" stock, I'll machine the pin first then thread the body while holding it by the pin.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  14. Agroshield Member

    Messages:
    1,371
    Buy the cheapest 1/8" BSP female fitting you can find (Toolfix or Screwstation in brass), put a slit in it with a hacksaw and it becomes a collet.

    You will struggle to grip it well enough on a short, small dia. pin to die-cut a thread.

    Then you can thread the full length of the bar, put in the 'collet', turn the pin, part off, loosen chuck, advance rod and repeat.
     
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  15. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    Why didn't I think of that! Nice one.
     
  16. brewdexta

    brewdexta Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,024
    Yorkshire
    I've been busy on the kitchen and messing with electric hoists, but hope to get a full day of fiddling with these two soon. A neighbour dropped by after cutting down the steel rule hopefully to hide the bodged bit in the table.

    Well it's better than it was, but no cigar. Still looks a bit naff. I'm not going to dwell on it, it will take a few months to renovate these two, I could cut the rebate wider but straight and square and fit a steel frame, similar to the ideas already given. Something will come to mind.

    20201025_143307-01.jpeg

    I've been using Evaporust to clean up a few of the small parts, but some of them will get a proper buffing. I'm quite impressed with Evaporust, a plastic take-away tray half filled with it cleaned this lot, some of it was heavily rusted. Not all at the same time of course. What I do like about it, is that nice shiny bits of the milling cutters don't get etched, from memory citric acid etches clean steel a little too. I will have to do a side by side test to confirm.

    20201025_125951-01.jpeg

    Here's what they looked like before

    20201020_184407-02.jpeg 20201021_091156-01.jpeg
    20201020_210832-02.jpeg

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  17. Glenn Donnelly New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Northern Ireland, UK
    These are beautiful!
     
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