re-badged rtech welder ???

[dobbslc]

I'm not knocking RTech either, I was an inch from buying one in the new year I just kind of stopped in my tracks when the price went up.
Then I needed more gas for my tig and saw a nice shiny GYS in the shop.
I really needed some retail therapy that week so just did it!

 

[choco]

The Chinese migs are all the same including rtech. There are different changes like connectors and LCD displays etc. Some 250 come in a 180 case. The rtech is no better it is the same, Your paying for the guarantee with rtech. I could be wrong but where the early model 250 rtechs in the 180 case ??

 

[ukracer]

The Chinese migs are all the same including rtech. There are different changes like connectors and LCD displays etc. Some 250 come in a 180 case. The rtech is no better it is the same, Your paying for the guarantee with rtech. I could be wrong but where the early model 250 rtechs in the 180 case ??

Yes you could be wrong....

 

[Hood]

All I will say is they may look the same but they are not. The Parweld one I had looked Identical to the LTS one with the exception of the colour. They were not the same machines internally, you could actually see a coil wound round, what looked like a piece of wood inside the LTS one. The Parweld lasted over 3 years, the LTS one went on fire first switch on and the replacement lasted a few hours actual welding before it too went on fire.
So as pdg says, they will build them to any spec you say with any components you specify so it is very hard to say which one will be better as they all look the same. Buying from a reputable source gives you peace of mind but obviously costs you more although as in my case I wasted £500 trying to save £250, never again.

 

[cumbriasteve]

It's a shame this argument continues on a regular basis yet never comes to a firm conclusion.

I would never argue R-Tech are better made or not because I don't know the truth, I know my R-Tech MMA blew a capacitor within 5 minutes and was replaced the next day, I also know that event has affected my trust in the inverter machines.

What could possibly help settle the issue is if R-tech made a detailed statement of how if their machines are improved upon beyond the usual cheap and cheerful Chinese versions it has actually been achieved.

I know if I had a product manufactured to a higher standard than the norm I would be sure I broadcast it loud and clear why mine was the best and what I had installed/changed/updated to make it so.

There are a lot of people using R-Techs and have never had an issue with them, I suspect there are more people using £200 yellow/red/green/sky blue pink machines also having no problems at all.

Until you can do a fail rate comparison or be told some unknown accurate facts all the arguing will simply produce more arguing and we will see this topic repeated time and again.

 

[Swift&Bold]

I reckon this is the conclusion to the whole debate:

...... Buying from a reputable source gives you peace of mind but obviously costs you more although as in my case I wasted £500 trying to save £250, never again.

 

[Hood]

It's a shame this argument continues on a regular basis yet never comes to a firm conclusion.

I would never argue R-Tech are better made or not because I don't know the truth, I know my R-Tech MMA blew a capacitor within 5 minutes and was replaced the next day, I also know that event has affected my trust in the inverter machines.

What could possibly help settle the issue is if R-tech made a detailed statement of how if their machines are improved upon beyond the usual cheap and cheerful Chinese versions it has actually been achieved.

I know if I had a product manufactured to a higher standard than the norm I would be sure I broadcast it loud and clear why mine was the best and what I had installed/changed/updated to make it so.

There are a lot of people using R-Techs and have never had an issue with them, I suspect there are more people using £200 yellow/red/green/sky blue pink machines also having no problems at all.

Until you can do a fail rate comparison or be told some unknown accurate facts all the arguing will simply produce more arguing and we will see this topic repeated time and again.

It all comes down to the backup there is in place. Do you want to spend less and take a chance which may well turn out to be a good chance that it is ok or do you want to spend a bit more and know you will get sorted if something goes wrong?
I took the first choice with one Tig but won't again. I was likely unlucky as the two probably came from the same batch but I won't take that chance again as it cost me more in the end and like you it made me wary of inverters.

 

[Burdekin]

This links to the info on their site

http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/choose-r-techwelding/

OUR MACHINES ARE BUILT WITH BRANDED COMPONENTS
We use Infineon® IGBT Inverter Power modules in our welders and plasma cutters (part of the Siemens® Group). These are sourced from Germany and America. We DO NOT use cheap MOSFET power modules.

WE DEAL DIRECT WITH YOU - NO MIDDLEMEN OR DISTRIBUTORS
Dealers and distributors add on their profit margins meaning you pay more for your machine. We deal direct with you, so you DON'T pay dealer prices - this is one reason why we can't be beaten on price (for the same specification of machine) by anyone. You also benefit from direct customer support, no middleman delays! We are unique in this industry because we do this.

YOU GET A FULL, COMPREHENSIVE 2 YEAR WARRANTY WITH EVERY R-TECH MACHINE
We offer a comprehensive 2 year collect and return warranty on both our Analogue machines and Digital machines because of the confidence we have in our products. In the unlikely event something goes wrong we will collect and return your machine back to you normally within 48 hours. Most manufacturers only offer RTB warranty which means you have to pay to ship back to them! Learn more about our collect & return warranty.

OUR MACHINES OUT-PERFORM THE COMPETITION
Why pay twice or even three times the price of one of our machines for someone else's when you can get all the features you'll ever need on ours. We design and assemble our welders and plasma cutters with high-end features like AC Squarewave Balance and Frequency (AC/DC TIG's) and High Frequency Pilot Arc (Plasma 40, 60, 100). Many of our models feature a high industrial 60% duty cycle - far better than comparable brands. This means you can weld at higher amps for longer periods of time without stopping. WHY PAY MORE FOR LESS?

NEXT DAY DELIVERY
99% of our products are available ex-stock. We despatch for next day UK mainland delivery on all orders up to 3pm. For more information on our next day delivery service please see the delivery details page.

24 YEARS OF COMPANY HERITAGE
We have been trading in the welding industry for 24 years, formerly as a warranty repairer for ALL major brands of welding machines and plasma cutters. Our success and growth is based on sound values and the desire to offer the best machines at the best prices backed up by our fast, friendly and efficient customer service.

BE 100% HAPPY OR YOUR MONEY BACK
If you are not happy with anything you have bought from us we will give you a complete refund, no fuss and no bother. That's how confident we are in what we do. Learn more about or Money Back Guarantee.

UNRIVALLED BACKUP AND SUPPORT
We are real people with a passion for what we do. We have Technical and R&D departments with skilled professionals who can help, advise and assist you before, during and after you buy from us. We want you to stay our customer so we have built a support structure designed to be with you every step of the way. Visit our Welding Equipment Reviews section for GENUINE customer feedback.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I did read all that when I bought my MMA, hence the surprise when it blew up as I happily prepare to weld with my new toy.

So the reliability bit sort of failed in that event and all the bumpf meant nothing and yes their after sales service was perfect so I was left happyish but not entirely convinced the machine was a long term option.... just my opinion.

Some of the Chinese machines are also stating very similar claims.

I am getting drawn in to the argument ...getting my coat

 

[Burdekin]

I don't know to be honest. My Tig is an old DC one of theirs, had it for ages and does the job. Was considering trading it in for an AC/DC machine and they would give me a very good price for my old machine so that was good to know. I did a college course last year to get some practice in and used a Kempi, honestly couldn't tell the difference, my Rtech welds fine.

I'm taking a punt on a cut50 plasma cutter, for £140 hopefully it will be all I need.

 

[Mee]

When I spoke to them they gave me a rather detailed reply.

They designed the welder and specified the components used and their quality standards. This alone should show it isn't a generic as a generic uses cheaper components which are all to the same design.

Generic or badge engineered versions will use different and cheaper components, if R Tech made a fraudulent claim, Trading Standards would have a field day and a certain prosecution, they haven't.

 

[skotl]

VVV This discussion VVV

 

[Wightsparks]

New here so not bored of this yet!

I have dealt with Chinese manufacturers in an unrelated industry.
In my experience they make what you tell them and anything you don't tell them will be the cheapest possible solution. Want it painted ? Specify the prep, the time, the method and the product. Want a motor on that? -specify the brand the wire gauge, the terminal size, the fact that all the bolts holding it down must all be the same size and made of X material, the key used on the motor shaft must be machined to a close fit - not a chunk of scrap hammered in the gap (can you tell I forgot that one)

So really it comes down to the spec and cost of unit failure.
For someone like R-tech a failure is expensive - Collection, fix and 48hr return for a 20kg welder? £, damage to reputation ££ So it is in their interest to make sure it works. The spec to the factory will be tight and as high as to fit their price point. It may start off as a generic welder but by selective spec changes (such as using branded parts) they can make their business work.
For an Ebay seller with RTB warranty, no reputation to lose and a customer base that wants it cheap as pos will take it as it comes. The fact that it comes out of the same welder factory and R-tech didn't change the spec of the box or restrict the use of their colours etc works in their favour - but they wont be paying for the internal spec as there is little to no benefit to them.

 

[choco]

The only way is to open an rtech welder and open a Chinese one like tigmig, lcd-vision etc plenty of people on here have these units,

 

[Swift&Bold]

That is no conclusion at all.

I could buy a unit for £250, have it blow up and fix it for £8.50. Or I could buy a unit for £750, have it blow up and get it replaced.

Where is the conclusion to that?

....if you have the time, parts, knowledge and ability, otherwise the fact that you can fix it for £8.50 is irrelevant to those that don't fall into that category, if not it's a sound decision that concludes why you should/would buy one and pay the extra.

 

[ukracer]

New here so not bored of this yet!

I have dealt with Chinese manufacturers in an unrelated industry.
In my experience they make what you tell them and anything you don't tell them will be the cheapest possible solution. Want it painted ? Specify the prep, the time, the method and the product. Want a motor on that? -specify the brand the wire gauge, the terminal size, the fact that all the bolts holding it down must all be the same size and made of X material, the key used on the motor shaft must be machined to a close fit - not a chunk of scrap hammered in the gap (can you tell I forgot that one)

So really it comes down to the spec and cost of unit failure.
For someone like R-tech a failure is expensive - Collection, fix and 48hr return for a 20kg welder? £, damage to reputation ££ So it is in their interest to make sure it works. The spec to the factory will be tight and as high as to fit their price point. It may start off as a generic welder but by selective spec changes (such as using branded parts) they can make their business work.
For an Ebay seller with RTB warranty, no reputation to lose and a customer base that wants it cheap as pos will take it as it comes. The fact that it comes out of the same welder factory and R-tech didn't change the spec of the box or restrict the use of their colours etc works in their favour - but they wont be paying for the internal spec as there is little to no benefit to them.

That is exactly the same as my experience of Chinese suppliers... Plus I have see R-techs premises and it does not look like a loads of box shifters... I was also told they DO spec the boards and have managed to improve things from the initial start up.

I am sure that there will be people who buy off eBay something that looks the same and are very happy with it.. What I object to is the claim, without proof the R-tech units are identical.

As an example they liyu SC vinyl cutting machines initially came with. Prolific USB serial drivers.. The guy I worked with asked for FTDI to be used instead.

FTDI have allegedly got annoyed with clones of their chips being fitted in Chinese machines as as a result have written some code to identify clone chips and the software installed (drivers) works incorrectly making the old cloned items do strange things.... Lol

How true it is I have no proof.... But I did get a large. Number of calls coinciding with the release of new drivers...... These calls were from users I sold machines to some 5. Or 6 years ago...

Just to save you looking.... And to prove I don't post crap... http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/ftdi-drivers-break-fake-chips-again/. ☺❤

 

[ukracer]

The only way is to open an rtech welder and open a Chinese one like tigmig, lcd-vision etc plenty of people on here have these units,

Exactly....... No one I know has actually done this. Mine are always available.

 

[Burdekin]

Folk could do a thread with pics of the internals.

 

[Hood]

I have a MTS255S that I will be opening up shortly to clean out but not sure if there are others selling them other than maybe Everlast?

 

[ukracer]

That objection works both ways.

I have seen no evidence they are identical, and I have seen no evidence they are different.

Not quite the same though mate... I accept your point.. But I have no reason to want people to buy from r-tech (other than I would like then in business to honour a warranty. claim). I have seen the premises and it looks to me like they are not just shipping boxes. So it's my opinion I had seen some evidence....

I have always been open to being given proof they are identical, hence my offers.. And let me tell you i would be the first to let them know that i was mighty &/:;()-+ /:;.

I will also say at this time i have taken out extended warranty in my 3 machines.. Was it worth it? Probably not in my case.. In hindsight......as i have not used them as much as i planned or would have liked.. And i have not had to return any of the 3 machines BUT the interest free and peace of mind is hard to put. Price on.