Questions about getting a lathe

[Maker]

hi, I'm looking at buying a metal lathe but ive just got a few questions. Firstly, most that im seeing are 415 volts 3 phase, so how hard would it be to change the motor out. Also, what are my options for getting one home, seeing as it won't fit in the car. And finally, can I put a normal chuck and toolpost on a hardinge HC3?

 

[shenion]

You can try and find a motor of the same physical size and RPM that is single phase. Would also need to have the same shaft diameter (or use a different pulley). On single-phase you'll probably be limited to a lower HP.

If the motor can be jumpered for 230V, then you can use a VFD or phase convertor.

You'll have to see about renting or borrowing a truck or trailer to move it. You'll probably also need some kind of hoist, rollers (black pipe works) and maybe a pallet jack.

You might find adapters for a different chuck. Toolposts can usually easily be changed.

 

[BrokenBiker]

all the cheaper tool posts i have bought all have a 3/8 hole in them, easy to either bore it out or make a bush to suit

 

[Maker]

Supposing I rent a truck/trailer, how could I lift it on and off

 

[BrokenBiker]

unused an engine crane to lift a fly press into my van. But i think a lathe will be too big. Maybe hire a folding gantry crane, or weld up a frame on wheels, hire a trailer with a winch and winch it up

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Hire a Hi-Ab?

Hope you've got easy access to the lathe's final resting place.

 

[Robotstar5]

Hire a Hi-Ab?

Hope you've got easy access to the lathe's final resting place.

+1 for hiring a Hi-Ab equipped truck, as long as you can land the lathe where it can be skated into postion

 

[fatfranky]

I've collected a couple and both times have used a trailer, as it's a lower bed than a truck (usually) also if access is difficult you (or a couple of you) can Man handle the trailer into place like an oversize wheelbarrow.

In terms of lifting them, the last one I got (Harrison 140) 3 of us manhandled it onto the trailer, I think it may have entailed lifting the lathe onto blocks and then backing the trailer beneath it. When unloading it, I did it on my lonesome with an engine crane, a bit fiddly, and often meant positioning crane and then allowing lathe to swim into position then lowering, reposition crane and repeat.

Where there's a will there's a way!

please also remember they are very top heavy so must be well strapped down

Regards

 

[Rudi McAnichal]

Single phase motors are typically more bulky (so you might have to fit a lower powered motor) and provide less starting torque (you may need to fit a smaller motor pulley, use lower speeds and take lighter cuts). OK for hobby use, not good if you need the lathe to earn your living.


Some machines use three phase for the main motor, but single phase for coolant pump and lights, which complicates the wiring if you want to use a single phase supply. Worth reading the notes about Boxford electrics on the lathes.co.uk website, even if you are considering a different make.

 

[hareng]

Change the motor to single ph you will also have to mess around rewiring all the controls and switch gear.
Not sure think that HC3 has a dual speed motor, you've got expensive problems powering that.

Frank 3 scaffold tubes to roll lathe out, think we winched it on up the ramp with some grunting.

 

[Pete.]

Supposing I rent a truck/trailer, how could I lift it on and off

Very carefully. Lathes are notorious for falling on their face and breaking important stuff like handles, aprons, arms and legs. I loaded a 1.5 ton lathe onto a trailer without a crane but I shift heavy stuff all the time and I still found I a challenge. Some experienced help would definitely be a bonus for you.

 

[MrFluffy]

Necessity is the mother of invention. I loaded my harrison using a hydraulic bike bench and small engine crane into a 750kg small sided trailer last move, and I collected my shaper using my landrover 90. However, disaster is the father and if it falls on you or someone else you'll be in a very bad way indeed, Ive been moving stuff for a few years now and have amassed various bits and bobs which assist.

Small rollers egyption style and lots of safe low pulling into low vehicles with over rated winch and comealong's is the order of the day, and if you can get someone experienced in heavy moving it makes a huge difference in the sucess.

 

[brightspark]

scaffolding planks and scaffolding tubing as rollers and a few handy lads and a 4 wheel plant trailer works well

 

[ford34/2]

I`m with bright spark, get a few lengths of almost any bar, it will easily roll,Try and keep the bar a canny bit wider than the base of the lathe in case you run off. Keep the Lathe a near to the ground as possible, if the ground is bad, uneven,think about planks, ply sheets etc, Plus crowbars, levers ratchet straps, the straps will drag it it to almost anywhere if you can anchor the strap. As many good pieces of wood, blocks, offcuts of posts if the lathe needs to be raised up.
Now the Lathe, notoriously very top heavy, combined with a relatively narrow base makes moving a recipe for disaster, Harrison incorporate two lifting holes through the base just under the coolant catchment apron, placed in a position to help counter balance the uneven weight, do not lift by placing a strap round the chuck, or round the tailstock, under the bed etc. be prepared to get two good lengths of bar-if its a Harrison.Most of them about 700Kg bare 3/4 ton area. In each corner of the base are the leveling bolts, consider bolting "outriggers" to the base ends to stop any chance of the lathe tipping,they will need removing if you have to get through gates and any narrow access points,give serious thought if you are going to consider placing any sort of 4 wheel "Trolly" under the base to assist in moving, its got to be a very very last resort, use tubing if at all possible.once loaded, make sure the lathe is well secured and do not just ratchet a strap over the the lot and tighten it up-- the lathe will tip and slide through the straps.And as pointed out do all sorts of damage to handwheels etc. where ever possible whilst moving have a secondary back up plan to counter act any possibility of failure during the first plan, Consider "Skates" from hire shops, depending on how much movement the machine needs.The Lathe will not tip up nor will it tip back, if its going to tip it will be sideways --so DO NOT STAND in that area. It will tip faster than you can react.
It will of course depend what Model of lathe you decide on, small stuff will almost lift into an Estate or Hatch, bigger stuff a van or trailer, do check the lathe height, Van headroom is so deceiving.
In the very worst scenario that you encounter a problem, get out of the way `cause you will never stop this top heavy brute from tipping if it so decides, Then even consider a sheet Tarpaulin in case you cant man-over it to where you want to be in one day/evening.Many hands make light work but realistically depending on the model, even 4 blokes aint gonna lift it.A tool kit as well because there may be a possibility of having to remove coolant tanks, or the motor. A lot of the older models will have imperial Bolts, so carry adequate tooling.Hire shops are a complete sorce of specialist equipment call in and explain what you want to do, and see what they have to offer, I even had a a Lathe loaded onto a skip Lorry it took longer to get it onto a hard area, the lift was seconds, and delivery sever so simple, Have a look round the erea for telehandlers on sites, JCBs etc Factories with a forlift, Lorries with Hi-Ab, few quid during a dinner break and a quick easy lift. I also had a Timber yard collect a Machine, the lorries always come back to their yard empty, yes it was legit and we bought timber from them, but a nice gesture/favour.

Regards and best of luck

Stan

Oh, and chucks and toolposts are very expensive if you have to buy new, consider this in the price

 

[fatfranky]

Change the motor to single ph you will also have to mess around rewiring all the controls and switch gear.
Not sure think that HC3 has a dual speed motor, you've got expensive problems powering that.

Frank 3 scaffold tubes to roll lathe out, think we winched it on up the ramp with some grunting.

Hi Jon

I think I did most of the grunting, but NOT most of the work

The fun part was unloading it, to be honest once the trailer was half into the garage ( pretty level surface) it was just a case of lots of small lifts with an engine crane using the lifting holes, lift a bit, move a little and lower it. Once on the ground bigger movements were possible

Regards

 

[Hopefuldave]

My two ton Holbrook was.pretty easy.to move, as it's on a flat-bottomed cast iron cabinet - 4 foot lengths.of scaffold pole (thanks Gary!) as rollers, winch on the rented (£30/day) plant trailer with. Its ramps behind a rented Landcruiser (£70/day), bunch of ratchet straps (5-ton SWL, £30 the four on eBay). Assistance from my. Son and his mate, 20 minutes to load, back up to garage and 5 mins to unload, a couple of BIG 4-foot or longer prybars for guidance up and down ramps etc.
If your lathe has legs, or separate cabinets at each end, raise it one end at a time and lag bolt 4x4 timber to it as runners ( with cross braces) and roll it on scaffold poles.
Problems come when you have to traverse soft.or uneven ground, a few 2x4s as a railway track or sheets of 3/4 ply make it possible, long bars (we used 30mm steel) through the lifting holes as 'stabilisers' or props if it toppled (didn't, luckily!) and job's a good'un!
Look.at toe jacks for raising onto rollers, or use Egyptian ( or more accurately Hebrew slave) lever/wedge/fulcrum method o get it high enough.
Rollers... I'd always use tubes rather than bar, tube can be moved and positioned with a pullable-out finger in it, bar can trap your fingers as two tons of lathe shifts....

 

[julianf]

Very little to add, except -

Spend some time thinking, take your time, and do very little work.
OR
Just start the job, and end up with hernias, and broken things.


My smart and brown can be separated from its cast base, which makes things a bit lighter.

 

[Maker]

Thanks for all the help guys. The listing for the hardinge lathe was ended early so I wont be getting that but the good news is, ive found a Harrison 12 inch swing. Dose anyone know if it can be unbolted from from its base because the one of the problems is that its MASSIVE. The other problem is that my mum's decided I can't have a lathe until I get a better school report and the next one comes out in about 18 WEEKS( After the summer holidays )but if I'm lucky I might persuade her with promises like "I'll revise for an hour every day".

 

[Hopefuldave]

If it's at all possible.I'd leave it in one piece, otherwise you have the added challenge of lifting a very heavy lathe off its base, moving the parts separately, lifting it back - and if the motor's in the base you'll have belts, wiring etc to disconnect and reconnect. The lathe bed isn't as easy to put on rollers either, so there's added work to do making up a skid to put the rollers under :-/
If it's one of the better Harrisons the base is a part of the structure too, and separating it may give you problems with alignment when it goes back together - my Holbrook has surface-ground pads on the cast-iron base that the bed sits on, even a speck of grit would have an effect on the bed's alignment!

 

[hareng]

Harrison went to great lengths bedding in and should be left undisturbed.
One piece base, slot 3 rollers underneath and roll with one hand, you wont do that with the newer ones.

Regardless whether good or not, walk away if it has the threaded spindle nose and doesn't have the extra change wheels which are almost impossible to get. More than likely a limited number of imperial pitches if it has the better Norton gearbox like the late 11" and 140.

Good news mark2 12" spindle fittings either LOO still available £76 for backing plate or the common D1-4 still in use today. If L00 make sure its got the C spanner takes 5 secs to remove chuck bit quicker than current D series.
Later mark3 had spindle stop start lever like newer 600Group machines, older having the glorious clutch, both have advantages.