Questionable Florescent LED replacement Efficiency ?

[awemawson]

Well Well Well - TLC have altered their web site to include the following statement regarding LED replacement fluorescent tubes:

“ Please note that a ballast and or starter left in situ in a fitting will in certain cases draw more power than the quoted consumption of the LED tube itself.
For the greatest energy saving it is suggested to remove the ballast and starter.”

The statement is of course incorrect as it is the CAPACITOR and CHOKES that need removing. During my conversation with the MD of the importing company he repeatedly made the slip of referring to the starter rather than capacitor so I know whose pen wrote that paragraph.

 

[brightspark]

choke = ballast

 

[awemawson]

choke = ballast

Yes a magnetic ballast is a choke - ie an iron cored wound inductor.

The main contributing factor to the excess consumption though in this whole sorry saga was leaving the capacitor in circuit - an order of magnitude greater than the effect caused by leaving the choke / ballast in circuit. And TLC's added paragraph makes no mention of the capacitor !!!!

 

[brightspark]

its only a 5 minute job to remove the guts and wire tubes direct ive replaced a fair few at a school not worth doing if the fittings are old or a bit crap though

 

[awemawson]

No it’s not I can assure you when they are very high in the gods over machines that can’t be moved and are tightly packed giving little to no floor space for high steps.

i agree the job itself is trivial but the access isn’t.

 

[brightspark]

No it’s not I can assure you when they are very high in the gods over machines that can’t be moved and are tightly packed giving little to no floor space for high steps.

i agree the job itself is trivial but the access isn’t.

well your still going to have to take em to bits to alter the wiring so its not just a tube change

 

[awemawson]

Wrong! I’m doing no such thing. The importer is employing two electricians to perform these gymnastics at his cost.

read the whole thread. The tube change happened over a year ago.

 

[brightspark]

Wrong! I’m doing no such thing. The importer is employing two electricians to perform these gymnastics at his cost.

same diffrence no matter who is doing it they have to get up to do it no matter what .just luckily its not you

 

[awemawson]

No luck involved. Just persistence and application of moral pressure on the supplier of incorrect information!

 

[awemawson]

So now TLC have modified their web site AGAIN to include this paragraph:

“ Please note that a capacitor, ballast and or starter left in situ in a fitting will in certain cases draw more power than the quoted consumption of the LED tube itself.
For the greatest energy saving it is suggested to remove the capacitor, ballast and starter.”

At least they listened when I pointed out that it was the capacitor drawing the most 'excess current' that wasn't even mentioned in their last itteration.

 

[awemawson]

I'm pleased to say that I can now draw a line under this issue. The importers sent two electricians today to open up each and every fitting, remove the capacitors and wire out the ballasts.

Current before change = 11.8 watts or 2773 Watts
Current after change = 3.44 amps or 808.4 watts

A VERY significant change that's long over due

While they were here I got them to remove the fluorescent tubes from 28 fittings in the welding shop and foundry, and having also removed the capacitors and wired out the ballasts install new LED tube that I had bought

Another major power saving :

Current before change = 9.7 amps = 2279 watts
Current after change 2.55 amps = 600 watts

I see that the jolly electricians have been caught on film


It's a relief to be able finally to put this to bed and actually reap the rewards of my investment (£750 approximately)

 

[Seadog]

Well that's quite a result, especially the "extras."

 

[Chippie]

Just goes to show persistence pays off…

 

[brightspark]

thought you said they were inaccessible

 

[awemawson]

The ten in the centre row of the main shop ARE - certainly to me. They did some extremely dodgy balancing and over reaching that I wouldn't have counternanced any employ of mine, let alone myself, performing.

 

[brightspark]

The ten in the centre row of the main shop ARE - certainly to me. They did some extremely dodgy balancing and over reaching that I wouldn't have counternanced any employ of mine, let alone myself, performing.

ive been known to do circus acts in my younger days. unbelievable . i wont now your bones dont heal quick when u get older and wiser not struck on hospital grub

 

[awemawson]

Having performed this exercise I now of course have loads of the capacitors - about 20 of 6 uF / 250v AC and about 20 of 12 uF / 250 v AC.

I expect that these would be fine to run small three phase motors off single phase or indeed perhaps to make a phase converter.

I did try and post an ad on the forum offering them at a modest cost but I presume a mod has not considered it suitable as it's not appeared. Shame really as I'm sure they'd be useful to some one.

They are continuously rated to be across the mains and have push in clip connections.

If anyone has a use for them please PM me and we'll sort something out..

 

[JOEPRO]

I'm pleased to say that I can now draw a line under this issue. The importers sent two electricians today to open up each and every fitting, remove the capacitors and wire out the ballasts.

Current before change = 11.8 watts or 2773 Watts
Current after change = 3.44 amps or 808.4 watts

A VERY significant change that's long over due

View attachment 399666

View attachment 399667

While they were here I got them to remove the fluorescent tubes from 28 fittings in the welding shop and foundry, and having also removed the capacitors and wired out the ballasts install new LED tube that I had bought

Another major power saving :

Current before change = 9.7 amps = 2279 watts
Current after change 2.55 amps = 600 watts


View attachment 399669

View attachment 399670
View attachment 399671

I see that the jolly electricians have been caught on film


It's a relief to be able finally to put this to bed and actually reap the rewards of my investment (£750 approximately)

Great result, very well done!

And for also watching out for the inaccurate footnotes they had issued after the fact also.

 

[T689]

@awemawson - Please keep us up to date on how long these LED tubes last.

Apparently the lifespan of these is quite short due to the design; They suffer with heat dissipation issues as the LED's are sealed within the tube, resulting in a short lifespan.

As a plus though - keep the purchase details safe because you have the 3 year guarantee!

 

[awemawson]

No issues so far and the first batch have been installed for over a year now