Putting beams/RSJ's in a garage? TIG Paul?

[Omniata]

I'm planning a garage and want two 6m RSJ's to act as supports for a pair of 1 tonne roller trolleys if I want to hoist or lift anything...
I've spoken with someone and they've suggested a plan and post...

The openings are 2m wide and will have roller shutters on them to allow either cars or big bits in and out...
The overall size will be 5m x 6m external, 2.5m to the eaves and ~3.5m to the roof ridge. The ridge will be central over the doors.
Possibly putting the doors towards the other side to place the ridge over solid wall more offset... ie: 1m from the left hand side and the door 1m from the right...

The red lines represent the 6m RSJ's running the length to take the trolleys and the blue dashed lines other RSJ's to support the 6m ones if needed...
"Red's" are 1.5m from each side wall... Although this may be changed later...

The supporting ones will have to be above the main ones to allow full run of the trolleys...
Ideally I'd like no pillars internally to give maximum floor area, but perhaps a full ring of RSJ around the perimeter to carry the cross RSJ's. And a portal framework built into pillars around the outside if necessary...

The ideas to allow one to be used for lifting out of a trailer or engine out of a car, the other for general "lifting and shifting"...
The load capability is the critical factor though, It needs to carry at least a tonne if not more to allow two trolleys to be used on one beam for longer stuff. Although it would probably never exceed quarter to half a tonne, in extreme circumstances...

TIG_Paul, I've been told your the man for beam calcs
Any ideas?


NB: This is based on what I'm now allowed under the current "planning portal" for "no required planning permission"

 

[Omniata]

On another note if the blue beams were supportive and could carry extra weight besides the main beams and trolleys I could put a storage space above and build the roof to ~4m

 

[gavuk]

Hi Jim ,i thought of rsj for my garage ,I didn't bother in the end as i was given an engine hoist ,not quite as useful in some jobs ,but does fold up ,put it the trailer when collecting the lathe ,and better for lifting engines,a lot cheaper too ...depends on your job requirements...

 

[Omniata]

At the current going rate two 1 tonne lifting trolleys are cheaper than a 1 tonne crane

 

[gavuk]

maybe the trolleys are cheap add in the price of the beams though ?....and for engines ,you'll most likely have to take off the bonnet with a chain hoist not with a engine hoist ....like i say depends on intended jobs though ,,good luck mate
ps did you think of an A frame?

 

[Omniata]

maybe the trolleys are cheap add in the price of the beams though ?....and for engines ,you'll most likely have to take off the bonnet with a chain hoist not with a engine hoist ....like i say depends on intended jobs though ,,good luck mate
ps did you think of an A frame?

True...
I've got a small vehicle type build planned and the 2.5m height would be great for working on the frame...
As for engines if I really needed to in that instance for repairs I'd have to get a crane anyway

I was thinking of an A-frame for portability, but with the furnace I'm making it's awkward to shift a whole A-frame carrying a crucible, a trolley will just roll...
If I can get enough load capability on it as well I can shift the furnace with it too. Or at least lift it a bit to get it rolling...
I was thinking of it for cleaning the Oxford as well if I need to do an oil change so I can work and lift in quite a large space...

 

[Paul.]

Is this what you are thinking of Jim?, I would move the support goalposts to the ends to get rid of the cantilever, use box section posts, with universal beams across, then undersling your 6 mtr beams using ht bolts,

 

[wyn]

Interesting stuff !

Maybe you could put two steel tracks on top of the 6M walls with one beam between running on them via rollers. The beam could then have a trolley on it. Sort of a proper overhead crane.

 

[Omniata]

Is this what you are thinking of Jim?, I would move the support goalposts to the ends to get rid of the cantilever, use box section posts, with universal beams across, then undersling your 6 mtr beams using ht bolts,

Cheers Paul!!!!!

That's exactly it
I was going to put supports at the ends and "in between if necessary"...

Any ideas as to what size beams/RSJ's, box section and bolts to use?
Just so I can get an idea of costs...

Interesting stuff !

Maybe you could put two steel tracks on top of the 6M walls with one beam between running on them via rollers. The beam could then have a trolley on it. Sort of a proper overhead crane.

That was another idea with a larger spread between the two middle ones but not right to the edges...

 

[madkayaker]

interesting i wish i had the hight in my workshop

 

[Paul.]

Interesting stuff !

Maybe you could put two steel tracks on top of the 6M walls with one beam between running on them via rollers. The beam could then have a trolley on it. Sort of a proper overhead crane.

That's another option, but move the 2 long beams to the outside, then suspend a cross beam under on trolleys, with the hoist on another trolley, make a proper traveling beam crane, the problem will be with the head height, 2.5m isn't really enough,

 

[Omniata]

That's another option, but move the 2 long beams to the outside, then suspend a cross beam under on trolleys, with the hoist on another trolley, make a proper traveling beam crane, the problem will be with the head height, 2.5m isn't really enough,

What about like a gantry type crane mounted into the sides of the beams?

Or are we talking extortionate costs now?

 

[gavuk]

Sounds like more than £150 for engine crane .....I would be looking into Wyn's idea , less material and easier to use ,but then i have no idea how much rsj costs either ....

 

[Omniata]

Sounds like more than £150 for engine crane .....I would be looking into Wyn's idea , less material and easier to use ,but then i have no idea how much rsj costs either ....

Just had a word with Paul and it's looking possibly around the £900 mark...

I was looking at 1T engine cranes and the prices were nearly £300


It's just the expanse I have to work with and just want to make the most of it, I'm too lazy to keep folding and unfolding a crane as needed

Costs wise after taking materials into account I may be able to get the whole build done from £7.5k to £10k...
Including power, water and gas fitted...

 

[wyn]

What about a home made swing jib crane 2.5M long mounted half way along the 5M wall. One each end of the garage could cover a fair area.

Something along these lines (The red thing at the back)

 

[gavuk]

you building yourself then Jim?.....i think mine came to 5k..,i considered a pit ,a gantry crane and roller doors ,but found all expensive to do right ,so didn't .....

 

[gavuk]

Nice set up Wyn ,that home or work?

 

[wyn]

Nice set up Wyn ,that home or work?

Sort of home...the shed i use on a local farm to keep me occupied on weekends etc.

 

[Omniata]

What about a home made swing jib crane 2.5M long mounted half way along the 5M wall. One each end of the garage could cover a fair area.

Something along these lines (The red thing at the back)

Your giving me ideas now, something like that is already within my grasp

you building yourself then Jim?.....i think mine came to 5k..,i considered a pit ,a gantry crane and roller doors ,but found all expensive to do right ,so didn't .....

Probably, maybe with help whilst acting as "tea boy"

I was thinking about a pit instead of a crane but there's a river overflow near to the plot and I don't fancy breaching it
Roller doors aren't too bad, there's a good company local who I know through a neighbour who had one fitted
It's either that or I make wooden ones
There's a higher water table too, currently about 4ft of MOT supports the whole back:

The rectangle to the right is the garage plot area, about 12m x 6.5m...
The existing garage is about 2m wide x 3.5m long...

On google maps: House link

 

[mike os]

looks like very expensive option to me.....unless you are using it very frequently... good mobile hoist is not a lot of £££

2m is not wide enough for a vehicle door minimum of 7'6" /2250mm more for a commercial/transit type

personally i would reduce the size by 100mm in each direction, just to be clearly on the good side, if over you may need to take it down