power/Speed on m/bike!

[johnakay]

thought I start a thread on bike power and speed.
I personally don't see the need for bike that are capable of doing well over the 100mph (inc cars).
that's why I've never had a big bike.
the fastest I've owned was a Yamaha thundercat 600.
I worked my way up from a humble gsx250(when I came back to biking).
my 1st new bike was a Fazer 600,ER6F,NC700X DCT my last.
for me I think these are fast enough for our roads they're to many vehicles on the roads and now cyclist. nearly every time we go out on the bike there are always to many flowers on walls/fences ,where the bikers have lost their lives..
leave the speed for track days.
what is your thought on this???

 

[arthur]

Most of (90%) of road side memorials round me are from car drivers, mostly young.


36,371 people died in Great britain from 99-2010 on the road.

 

[Richard.]

Well my reply is a little the opposite as I really love the awesome power developed by some Of these bikes. Ive owned many of the jap 1000cc super sports capable of hitting the 100mph mark in 1st gear.
Now you are dead right the British roads are certainly not the place for 180mph and many speeds below that. But that's not the reason ive owned those bikes. It's also about raw acceleration, ability to power hard on an exit of your favourite bend the odd 3rd gear wheely and having that sort of grunt on tap can be quite fun to have used responsibly. (Wheely comment aside) I have done a few track days on some of them too which helps with a bit of poke too. It devastates me too to hear of bikers getting killed but silly things can be done on all bikes which lead to death not just the 170bhp ones.

 

[arthur]

Id like to add that also in a recent survey bikers were found to be the safest drivers/users of the roads but "we" already know that

I get your point re power, France has the 100bhp law (I stand corrected by Norlander), me I'd do all I can to protest against it. However I have a collection of bikes and the one I love the most is 130bhp, another is 205bhp.

Safe riding to all.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Many riders cant cope with 200bp bikes, and would find a good 600 easier to ride at higher speeds. Even more so when wobbling around at track days, when shortcomings in stock suspension and brakes become glaringly obvious............................

 

[arthur]

Most bikes are quick, even my Motard at 50bhp is quick, as you say the dilemma is stopping/handling/ability, and as rightly said by the OP the roads are so busy now (pedestrians, cyclists, horses and so on) and most are poor condition round here, modern bikes accelerate so fast that once a rider has made the decision to light up the motor the situation ahead changes and now the speed has to be lost, I have some of the best brakes in the game (Brembo GP4RR/T-Drive) and they STILL are unable to defeat the basic laws of physics.

 

[norlander]

I just don't bother with the BHP/top speed stuff, its bar room blah blah, which I find boring I look at torque and where it comes in at what revs. A duke on its 100BHP wet/urban setting topped 130mph.
But I've seen guzzi tractors kick the bum of bigger BHP tackle, and Dukes too, with Hailwood and Smart on board em.

France has the 100bhp law, me I'd do all I can to protest against it.

you'd be lonely if you did Arthur, its gone in the bin.

Many riders cant cope with 200bp bikes,

I remember doing Cadwell when the R1 came out, I think three at least binned em, one guy being unlucky and breaking his wrists which chopped our session down, he was ok otherwise thankfully.
One lad from our duke crowd switched to the R1, and was killed, my impression (totally personal) was that riders taking a stretch of road which they did before at 80 ish, thought that cos they had an R1, they should be doing 90ish and that proved too much-dunno.
But for the most part, folks seem to handling the BHP,and it comes with rider aids now as well, so folks have got a choice.

 

[MattH]

<holiday off>

Stuff a 600! I'm 6'4" and weigh over 100kgs.

My S1000rr was fun at 165mph heading into a 50mph chicane at Spa and Silverstone.

Is 190bhp to much for the road? Probably but my 410bhp supercharged Jag was over the top to and nobody moans about them.
How many bikers die at 120+ mph? Not as many I'd wager as die at 30-50mph slamming into cars.
That aside, save the insane speeds for the track.

<holiday on>

 

[Richard.]

<holiday off>

Stuff a 600! I'm 6'4" and weigh over 100kgs.

My S1000rr was fun at 165mph heading into a 50mph chicane at Spa and Silverstone.

Is 190bhp to much for the road? Probably but my 410bhp supercharged Jag was over the top to and nobody moans about them.
How many bikers die at 120+ mph? Not as many I'd wager as die at 30-50mph slamming into cars.
That aside, save the insane speeds for the track.

<holiday on>

Dead right. Well said.

 

[Chris Stevens]

I get the feeling that an awful lot of people play the numbers game in relation to bikes, in that bigger is always better, notwithstanding the fact that cheap stock suspension and brakes are always going to work better on smaller bikes, making them much easier to ride fast.

The supercharged H2 is the most powerful production bike in the world, but a good rider on a smaller bike is almost always going to be quicker on anything other than a runway, so other than bar room bs is there any real point in 200bhp road bikes?

 

[Chris Stevens]

I just don't bother with the BHP/top speed stuff, its bar room blah blah, which I find boring I look at torque and where it comes in at what revs. A duke on its 100BHP wet/urban setting topped 130mph.
But I've seen guzzi tractors kick the bum of bigger BHP tackle, and Dukes too, with Hailwood and Smart on board em.


you'd be lonely if you did Arthur, its gone in the bin.



I remember doing Cadwell when the R1 came out, I think three at least binned em, one guy being unlucky and breaking his wrists which chopped our session down, he was ok otherwise thankfully.
One lad from our duke crowd switched to the R1, and was killed, my impression (totally personal) was that riders taking a stretch of road which they did before at 80 ish, thought that cos they had an R1, they should be doing 90ish and that proved too much-dunno.
But for the most part, folks seem to handling the BHP,and it comes with rider aids now as well, so folks have got a choice.

Exactly...............good riders with race experience, and proper suspension and brakes can certainly ride bikes with 200bhp, but not so sure about road riders, playing the numbers game, and needing to cope with stock suspension and brakes....................?

 

[norlander]

Exactly...............good riders with race experience, and proper suspension and brakes can certainly ride bikes with 200bhp, but not so sure about road riders, playing the numbers game, and needing to cope with stock suspension and brakes....................?

to be fair Chris, the top end sportsbikes have top level chassis and equipment (tyres as well) and cack handed throttle control is handled by traction control, cack handed braking is handled by ABS. And the euro bikes like Dukes and the awesome Beemer are ahead of the Japanese (I think -not that interested in the BHP/gismo race).

All of which can be negated by diesel on the road. Me, I won't have ABS, or an electric brain taking the place of the seat of my pants, shortly, we won't have a choice though which why I'm sticking with my older bikes.

 

[Richard.]

There is a lot more to it than that. Having owned 600,s and thous I can happily say I wouldn't go back to a 600. You have a good point about certain (not all) bikes with poor standard brakes and suspension and ive spent the money on some of them making them right. I'm also a 6ft frame weighing not a lot less than Matt and the subtle differences in bike size make big differences to fellas like us that want to ride sports bikes. There is also the fact that a 600 needs screaming to get the performance out of them where as a thou can be more forging on the gear you select to get equal performance. It's like welders Chris you don't need to use all its power to benefit from it having it there. There are advances to both I admit and I loved my gixxer600 it was my first proper bike but it didn't take long till I found it living in the red line. A better rider will always be able to make inferior bikes go quicker than a learner on a faster bike that is a fact but these big bikes ain't meant for beginners and a degree of common sense is needed. I'm an average rider with a good head on my shoulders and can hold my own in the inters, I love fast bikes and the only people I've known to moan about them are either ones that have lost loved ones or ones have never really experienced them properly to see the good in them too. My old gixxer k5 thou was the best one I've owned and I could see real advantages to its power over 600's even on the road. It's brakes and suspension were far from standard

 

[Chris Stevens]

to be fair Chris, the top end sportsbikes have top level chassis and equipment (tyres as well) and cack handed throttle control is handled by traction control, cack handed braking is handled by ABS. And the euro bikes like Dukes and the awesome Beemer are ahead of the Japanese (I think -not that interested in the BHP/gismo race).

All of which can be negated by diesel on the road. Me, I won't have ABS, or an electric brain taking the place of the seat of my pants, shortly, we won't have a choice though which why I'm sticking with my older bikes.

In terms of the suspension and brake parts used on race bikes, the road bike stuff is pretty poor. If a good rider pushes a bike to the very limit on a race track, lighter weight and lower power will always mean a smaller bike handles and stops better than bigger capacity ones..................and in most cases lap times will be quicker.

 

[MattH]

I had a K4 thou with R1 monoblocs, 320mm discs, brembo RCS master cylinder, and K-Tech forks. Great great bike.

 

[Chris Stevens]

It always amuses me when road riders on stock bikes think they can ride as well as racers on tuned properly prepared versions of the same bike, with maybe £15k spent on suspension adn

I had a K4 thou with R1 monoblocs, 320mm discs, brembo RCS master cylinder, and K-Tech forks. Great great bike.

Would have been even better with top end suspension and brakes.............

 

[Richard.]

My k5 was sat on a near on identical set up
R1 monos on front with Brembo cyl
Heli lines and EBC discs and pads.
Had olins cartridges in front (full shocks way too pricey) olins mono on the back.

 

[Richard.]

It always amuses me when road riders on stock bikes think they can ride as well as racers on tuned properly prepared versions of the same bike, with maybe £15k spent on suspension adn


Would have been even better with top end suspension and brakes.............

It always amuses me when you post Chris.
It's clear you've read a few magazines about bikes but probably rode very few. Why don't you please stop dissing and abusing people's stuff and choices or go away. Matts set up and my own might not of been 15 grand but so what........
Is that any reason to rubbish it.......
This could be a sensible discussion with a lot of good points put across. You've mentioned brakes and suspension 5 times now so thanks for your point.
Give the whole mines better than yours childish talk a rest.

 

[MattH]

It always amuses me when road riders on stock bikes think they can ride as well as racers on tuned properly prepared versions of the same bike, with maybe £15k spent on suspension adn


Would have been even better with top end suspension and brakes.............

It was a track bike and anyone in the know will appreciate the modifications that I made to the bike would of made it much more "rideable" on track.

 

[daleyd]

I'm sorry I don't get the whole "Race bikes are better" mentality Chris. It's horses for courses, of course a race bike built purely for 1 thing is going to be better at that one thing, a road bike is necessarily a compromise.

Have you ever ridden a race bike on the road? I have (Admittedly for a short distance but it was enough to convince me it wasn't a good idea)...... it was bloody awful. It was a 916 Ducati that had competed in the British Superbike championship, John Hackett tuned engine, Ohlins suspension, Brembo's the lot.

Fast as you like, but twitchy as hell over anything but billiard table roads, brakes that were wooden unless up to temperature, (comparative) lack of low down power then a sudden rush when it got into it's stride, gear ratio's too close etc etc. A fast road bike of the same era would be a much better proposition for the road, and probably faster. (Wasn't my bike by the way, a good friend of mine used to spanner for a privateer in the BSB)