power for a powercraft 160 stick welder

[calbro]

hi evryone hope someone can help me?
my wief got me a powercraft 160 stick welder for christmas witch was nice. the problem is that i says it has to be wiered through a 30 amp spur and not just with a 3 pin household plug. i was wondering if anyone has ignoed this and if they have had any problems doing so. i would only be useing 2.5 and 3.2mm rods as thats what we have at work!
hope this makes sense abd someone can help!
cheers

 

[SC_BK]

You will be able to run it on the lower settings on a 13amp plug. You will probably pop the fuse over about 120amp
But keep plenty of spare 13amp fuses! You can blow it if you get a rod stuck

 

[the snooper]

i have a 140 arc welder and when i use it close to it higher end it pops the fuse every so often

 

[calbro]

cheers for the replys i was thinking that as long as i dont use the higher amp settings then i should be ok on a 13amp fuse. ill give it a try!!

 

[Chit]

The socket will be on a 32 amp breaker, so try using a 16 amp fuse in your plug. The cables into your welder are 1.5mm so 16a will be protection enough. When I briefly( half a 3.2mm rod and then 15 minutes to cool down? Ehh no thanks) had a little powercraft 160 in my garage, it was wired with 1.5sq mm twin + earth straight into a 18amp motor protection overload (same as mcb) and it would only trip when I got rods stuck on there for long time (and when you drop your grinder, still running, onto your power cable and melt your rcd)

 

[Robotstar5]

so try using a 16 amp fuse in your plug.

Don't try a 16A fuse in plug (even if you could get one) as the plug is only designed to carry 13A max and exceeding this is a fire risk

 

[keith19]

"...as the plug is only designed to carry 13A max and exceeding this is a fire risk."
I take it that what you mean is that the plug is only designed to carry 13 Amps max continuously? I've had a 3-bar electric fire on all day without the plug even getting warm. (Generally in places where I haven't been paying for the electricity!).That is 13 Amps continuous output.

For safety reasons all 13 Amp plugs to BS standards are designed to carry an higher current than 13 Amps for short periods. With a high quality plug from a respected manufacturer, the safety factor may be higher than a poor-quality anonymous one. For safety reasons I would repeat that this is for short periods.

While I would certainly agree with you that there is a strong fire risk with a 13 Amp plug overheating if used continuously at 15-16 Amps with a 16 Amp fuse wire in, the average 13 Amp plug, even with a 13 Amp fuse, often takes a current draw of in excess of 14-16 Amps for short periods when an arc weld in the region of 130-140 A output, or more, is being made.
The fuse does not blow because the current draw is not on long enough to melt it, unless perhaps the rod sticks to the job, and shorts out. However over a period of time the fuse wire within the fuse will become more fragile and brittle with these intermittent heavy currents passing through, heating and reheating it, and it will eventually blow.

That is why those of us who use our 13 Amp plugs on the limit when welding should obtain top-class plugs, check them frequently, and keep a supply of (13 Amp) fuses handy.

 

[madkayaker]

a 13A plug is designed to provide 13A. putting a bigger fuse in, nail is stupid and a fire risk

 

[keith19]

"a 13A plug is designed to provide 13A. putting a bigger fuse in, nail is stupid and a fire risk".

I'm sure anyone with electrical training or background would agree, especially with the nail. Commonsense would suggest a nail might compromise the safety of the domestic wiring, not just the plug.

Nonetheless the fact remains that many people, including myself, use or have used items like electric welders and electric motors that are either at, or over, the 13 Amp limit capacity, with little or no problem on a 13 Amp plug and socket.

This is because there is a designed-in buffer safety zone between the officially rated capacity of the plug, fuse, and socket, and what it is actually capable of. The design is such that the initial current draw from some powerful home appliances, which is a great deal higher than their standard operating current, is adequately catered for. It is this which allows for short bursts of relatively high welding current to be used without either melting the fuse or tripping the mcb.

However when we may try to extend the use of this 'safety zone' by using 15-Amp fuse wire instead of a 13 Amp fuse, for example, we are getting into a rather gray and dodgy area, and this is not a practice which this or any other responsible forum can possibly recommend.

For those experienced in electrical practice, who know the strengths and weaknesses of the components involved, and who have the knowledge to assess the situation they are working with, it may be quite another matter, and they alone will be responsible for their actions.

 

[dannyp]

offically a 13 amp plug is good for 13 amps.

unoffically a good MK13 amp plug will handel quite a lot more the main issue is ensureing good conenctions between the plug and the cabel.

also there is a vast diffrence in 13 amp fuse's a good slow blow 13 amp fuse will normaly be fine on a stick welder runnin 3.2's


as siad continus loads cause a problem like running a 5KVA transformer heavly loaded all day out of a cheep 13a socket

 

[rtbcomp]

Echoing Keith's comments:

Whether or not the plug can take the extra load is irrelevant.

A fuse only protects the wiring after the fuse, so the rest of the ring main is at risk (depending what else is being used at the time) if you replace a fuse with a nail.

The safety margins are built in for safety, using a safety margin for normal running removes the safety margin.

 

[BillJ]

This is correct:

A fuse only protects the wiring after the fuse

i.e. the fuse in the plug is there to protect the flex to the appliance.

This is not:

so the rest of the ring main is at risk (depending what else is being used at the time) if you replace a fuse with a nail.

The ring main is protected by the fuse or breaker at the consumer unit, not by anything you might plug into an outlet.

 

[rtbcomp]

The ring main is protected by the fuse or breaker at the consumer unit, not by anything you might plug into an outlet.

Just seeing if you were awake!:whistle

 

[BillJ]

Just seeing if you were awake!

Barely!

 

[madkayaker]

a often missed fact about ring circuits. A ring is 2.5mm Twin and earth cable that on its own is rated to 20A (Max not allowing for insulation, grouping etc etc) the circuit protective device on a ring is 30 (old fuse boards) or 32 (MCB, RCBO etc) the regulation state that when designing a ring the load should be arranged so that no more than 20A is being taken by one leg of the ring. this is often overlooked when the ring is installed or is impossible to calculate as the person doing the work has no idea what is going to be used in the ring. So a ring in a garage could easily be overloaded on one leg if all the heavy use equipment is arranged on one side e.g. how most of us have the workbench. so pulling greater than designed for load on a socket could end up with a fire risk in not just the fixed wiring and the plug and i bet the home insurance company would laugh at you if there was a fire and the modification was discovered. for further information on a 13A plug there is a great 50 page PDF on the IEE website

 

[dannyp]

my workshop is wired up so that can't be an issue.

power comes in in 16mm2 to a split load consumer unit. off one side i run the lighting ring, external lights, extractor fans and that sort of crap

all my sockets near workbench be them 13a or 32a are on spurs with 6mm or 10mm cabel.


the officaly accseptable answer is to use 13a slow blow fuses

 

[Robotstar5]

the officaly accseptable answer is to use 13a slow blow fuses

and for anyone who has trouble identifying the correct type, as long as it has BS1362 printed on it you should be OK