Polish argon from eBay...?

[Gareth J]

Has anyone tried any of the polish shipped argon bottles from eBay?

Like this, but there are a few sellers at varying prices/sizes/pressures:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=272921075088&alt=web

I do very little aluminium mig stuff and no tig so normally just buy disposable ones. Probably use less than one a year. But was looking about and slightly tempted by these.

For me, anything rented is out and to be honest I do so little, anything with a deposit has to be treated as non refundable as it could end up outlasting the business!

Would be interested to hear if anyone has taken a gamble on one.

Need to get something on the shelf as I suspect I'm getting near empty.

 

[bc30se]

They earn a lot, such a bottle is 250pln in POland - 50gpb

http://allegro.pl/pelna-butla-z-arg...?reco_id=f8f2e0e6-d2c0-11e7-9682-b8ca3a69c730

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

Rent-free over here would be better.
~£90 for a refill of a 20litre bottle @ 200bar with SGS or similar outlet.

 

[Gareth J]

Its worth looking into, yes. What is the deposit on such a bottle likely to be? I can't find any prices online. I'm really not that sure a rent free one would be better for me though. That much gas would last me for the foreseeable future and he nearest SGS is ~20mi away.

 

[backpurge]

Have you checked the regulator fitting, you may need to buy a new regulator to suit

 

[Shedendman]

"They can be used and recharged throughout the EU without additional testing"
So who refills them then,and what do you do with the empties?

 

[Hood]

At my local place that sells SGS gas a 10l 200 bar bottle (so almost double the Polish one) is £52 for a refill and £60 for deposit.

 

[backpurge]

Might be a sensible option. I never have reason to get to St austell but £17 delivery isn't the end of the world.

Re. Regulator, I'd probably need a new one whatever, only have a standard argoshield one and a hobby type one.

Your Argoshield reg would fit a UK supplied argon cylinder so you need to factor the extra expense into the cost of a Polish supplied cylinder

 

[Agautosport]

The fitting listed in the ad is different to the UK standard.
The pressure is only 150 BAR.
The size is only 8 litres.
It is illegal for anybody to refill these cylinders without the manufactures original testing paperwork.
All cylinders throughout Europe need retesting every 10 years.
Looks like the company listing these on eBay are not professional gas suppliers, they sell all sorts
of products and I guess are not familiar with the business and the regulations that govern the industry.

Alan
SGS Gases Ltd

 

[bc30se]

Looks like the company listing these on eBay are not professional gas suppliers, they sell all sorts
of products and I guess are not familiar with the business and the regulations that govern the industry.

They may not know the regulations for the UK but these cylinders on ebay are refilled according to Polish regulations, this is our standard 150bar for argon, 50bar for CO2.... nothing illegal here... they are approved too, however in POland, the cylinder is not a subject of any homologation, but the valve needs to be replaced with a new one every 5 years. Perhaps that's why the pressure has been lowered so it is safer? What are your pressures for the argomix by the way? Perhaps with the increase, the cylinder must be legalised so I wouldnt say yours better... When you do the exchange they test each time anyway so it is better than at 10 years interval...

To refill 8L with Co2 is 3GPB in POland, argon or argon mix is 10gbp, Bigger ones too - CO2 is so cheap.... You don't rent the cylinders here, you buy them and then you only exchange them for refilled ones with the guy checking if the homologation is still there on the valve, or if he knows you are the one who bought a cylinder from him you will never have any trouble even if your valve expires or there is something wrong with the cylinder - they will just give you a new one free or for very little additional fee. However, valve exchange is 30gbp if you bring the bottle not bought from the local supplier and it has expired. It is just better to be faithfull to your supplier - it pays off here.

I think that among other EU regulations we have it nice and user friendly with technical gases... I wouldnt like to have your rules here but perhaps it will come with time... EU spolis everything... 15 years ago I could refill small LPG camping cylinders but today it is not allowed, you can only exchange them... - EU "rules" - but people don't care anyway and refill on their own from big cooker cylinders with a hose... I have done it myself since I remember, my father did so...... grandfather too...

PS the cylinder from the auction is chinese... you won't get them at our local refill pointanyway... only Polish production cylinders... they may be old but reliable... I wouldnt buy off auction anyway for 237pln because I pay 250pln here at my station for a 8L one...

 

[Agautosport]

Our cylinders are 345 BAR test pressure and 230 BAR working pressure, we actually fill to 200 BAR only to stay on the safe side of things.
You do not cover the fact that valve fittings vary across Europe from country to country.
So do customers have to send these back to Poland for a refill?
It is illegal for anybody to fill these in the UK and the Health and Safety Executive would take a very dim view of anybody filling cylinders that do not belong to them .

 

[bc30se]

Of course it might be illegal to have a POlish valve in GB... that's to be understood.... Our suppliers do not refill cylinders with the valves coming from other countries... but this is also dictated by the refiling station requirements... non standard valves will not comply with the filling gear... if you will be kindly persistant they will do it for you once or twice filling your cylinder individually for additional money but finally they will say no anyway, just buy a new valve or a complete cylinder because its height is crucial for the refilling too.

So your bottles are more pressurised so you need cylinder checks too, our cylinders still stay on the safer side having less pressure but then nobody cares so much for them being licenced each 10 years (in reality they are licenced but it just doesnt matter for the end customer who stays by the same supplier). I have been replacing my cylinders for years... I I don't need to be even aware, it is meant to be safe for me, welding is not illegal or prohibiten so if you can buy a welder in Lidl, it means you must be able to buy a cylinder easily and must just work for normal people who don't even care... they bought a welder and want to weld... need a cylinder go here and there, you have an old 20years one? bring it to them they will tell you what can be done with it... easy... I think the new cylinder is even cheaper if you leave your expired old one... they encourage people it is just safer to have new and leave your old unreliable and not even try experimenting (they know Polish tinkers haha)... (I have very old oxygen cylinders my friend presented me with, I went to them, was asked to leave them, they inspected them, cleaned.. and I have been using them happily for I don't know... 10 years now.. I am sure they are 40 years old or more... why discard something good just because the regulations say each 10 ears junk and new?

Which system is better?? I would say mine.. you will say yours.... and the guy from ebay.. he just wants to sell, you buy it you have to know....

 

[DennisCA]

Has anyone tried any of the polish shipped argon bottles from eBay?

Like this, but there are a few sellers at varying prices/sizes/pressures:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=272921075088&alt=web

I do very little aluminium mig stuff and no tig so normally just buy disposable ones. Probably use less than one a year. But was looking about and slightly tempted by these.

For me, anything rented is out and to be honest I do so little, anything with a deposit has to be treated as non refundable as it could end up outlasting the business!

Would be interested to hear if anyone has taken a gamble on one.

Need to get something on the shelf as I suspect I'm getting near empty.

That doesn't seem a very good price, last I checked in Finland it was 80 something euros to swap in an 11 liter, 200 bar cylinder. Granted you have to buy it at a heftier price the 1st time, I waited for a discount and got it for 249€, includes a built in regulator and quick connect.

And we all here think gas prices in the nordic countries are crazy high, usually compared to Germany. But we only have a few local monopolies... They even made it impossible to own bigger bottles than 11l.

 

[Gareth J]

Thanks for all the replies, in particular for pointing out the potentially different valve.

I have decided that the best solution, after speaking to the most local SGS stockist that I ought to find an excuse to go down to St Austell one day. Their price is fairly significantly cheaper; 10L refill @160bar for £40 and deposit of £65. It does mean I'll have to buy the cylinder outright but that will also be cheaper than the deposit I was quoted.

The panic is off for now anyway as I've managed to do the bit of aluminium I needed to so can sort gas for next time when it's convenient.

 

[Agautosport]

That doesn't seem a very good price, last I checked in Finland it was 80 something euros to swap in an 11 liter, 200 bar cylinder. Granted you have to buy it at a heftier price the 1st time, I waited for a discount and got it for 249€, includes a built in regulator and quick connect.

And we all here think gas prices in the nordic countries are crazy high, usually compared to Germany. But we only have a few local monopolies... They even made it impossible to own bigger bottles than 11l.

Really interested to hear that gas prices there are very high. Are most cylinders there still on rental agreements or are there rent free options there?

 

[DennisCA]

Like I said, 11 liters are the biggest you can own here. Bigger than that it's rental.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Similar prices here as to the north. I pay 90€ /£80 for an 11ltr at 200bar (Argon with 8%Co2) and about about the same for a years rental, billed every three years. You can buy small cylinders, which I might do for argon. When I arrived here, I had several cylinders which I owned, in test. Nobody would touch them, so I doubt that they would touch the ones on e-bay. Monopoly run by Linde & Air Liquide, or is that a Diopoly?

 

[DennisCA]

Yeah I know people who live in southern Sweden go on trips to Germany, buy 50 liter bottles and bring them back, next trip they bring the old ones back and exchange/refill them.

 

[Agautosport]

There is light on the horizon for users in Spain, the Benelux countries and Scandinavia, more info. TBA!!!

 

[Rig Pig]

There is light on the horizon for users in Spain, the Benelux countries and Scandinavia, more info. TBA!!!

Branching out?