Tinbasherdan
Bodger in chief
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- Bolton, England
Sadly, the unions tried to hold the country to ransom and managed to destroy the industry while they were at it. People going on strike every ten minutes doesn’t work too well
- Thread starter Beeezer
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gaz1
Member
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- westyorkshire
they might have destroyed the mines but the sell off of the rest of it just proves the intentions of what was planned anyway
lets sell the country down the drain to private companys instead while raking in our back pockets with handouts with the privatisation scam
that we are paying for again because they wont invest back into the system
lets sell the country down the drain to private companys instead while raking in our back pockets with handouts with the privatisation scam
that we are paying for again because they wont invest back into the system
brightspark
Member
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- yarm stockton on tees
well it certainly changed course as usual all because they had a visit from plodI genuinely can't believe this hasn't been
you just have to get over it and move on 
northwest
Searching for the Holy Grail.........
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Some socialist! Arthur Scargill may sue NUM for more perks after claiming he has been cheated out of free fuel
Arthur Scargill is threatening legal action against the NUM for withdrawal of payments understood to be worth around £5,000 a year.www.dailymail.co.uk
Some socialist - just looks like another "taker" to me....
Mr Scargill had a flat at the Barbican and he tried to buy it under the right to buy scheme, he was prevented from doing so because of his other property interests.
I think one thing which is a theme running through this thread is that of Police Force. They are not nor have they ever been a "force". It is the Police Service and you are free to look this up. Very much like @ukracer I am sure will confirm it is the Fire Service, nobody would think of calling it a Fire Force.
This is one of the problems we face today, I must say on a Saturday night looking at the police officers and the way they dress, the service part seems to have vanished and they very much look like a force, I suppose the old adage applies, if you look the part........
Because there are elements of the service that believe they are a Force they act that way and the bit that encompasses Service (to the pubic) has somehow been lost in translation. I do believe this is now becoming very evident.
Other Daniel
Member
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- France, Charente
I agree 100% with what you are saying @northwest .
The difference in terminology, whilst apparently subtle, does have a great
impact on how they are perceived. Over here they are often referred to as
"La force de l'ordre", which is quite a menacing term in itself, and most
likely is intended to be.
However, unlike the fire or ambulance services, their role is ultimately
different, and perhaps the line is thinner. At what point should they suspend
being a "service", and focus on being a "force" to maintain order ?
They have to wear two, sometimes very different, hats.
Totally agree with the "I don't like the nothing to hide, nothing to fear argument" - this is always used to justify every erosion of our privacy, rights etc. It's just an inversion of the "innocent until proven guilty" a la 1984 where up is down now.
Daniel, aren't the Gendarmarie an arm of the armed forces? Whereas supposedly our police force/service are a citizen - non military organisation.I agree 100% with what you are saying @northwest .
The difference in terminology, whilst apparently subtle, does have a great
impact on how they are perceived. Over here they are often referred to as
"La force de l'ordre", which is quite a menacing term in itself, and most
likely is intended to be.
However, unlike the fire or ambulance services, their role is ultimately
different, and perhaps the line is thinner. At what point should they suspend
being a "service", and focus on being a "force" to maintain order ?
They have to wear two, sometimes very different, hats.
@northwest, I've never come across this "service" description, I've always heard of them referred to as the "police force", completely agree that terminology makes a difference to an organisations outlook.
Other Daniel
Member
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- France, Charente
Fine, to a point.
But, simultaneously, we demand the police do their job, yet continue
to put every obstruction possible in their way.
They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
It's hardly any mystery that now they themselves are starting to give
up. They have a thankless job, I think.
Other Daniel
Member
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- France, Charente
Hi @TEO ,
We have the Gendarmerie and, yes, they are a branch of the armed forces.
We also have the Police Nationale & the Police Municipal, who are part of
the civil service.
Whilst, at the top, they are governed by two different ministries, their role
on the ground is, we can say for simplicity, pretty much shared between
them.
pedrobedro
Man at Matalan
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Don't we elect the government to run things for us ?
ajlelectronics
Member
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- Gloucester, England
True and France have Napoleonic Law where one is presumed guilty unless proven otherwise.
'Tis true, they stopped being a Police Force some while ago and became the namby pamby Police (Social) Service, dedicated to giving criminals love and understanding instead of a good sharp shock.
gaz1
Member
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- westyorkshire
the uk already has some form of that already within the system
Not " some form " it has become prevalent, not just within our justiciary but our public psyche too.
We give a lot of air to " presumed innocent unless proven otherwise", it makes us all feel good to think and state it and it use to be the case but for many years now the reality is very different.
northwest
Searching for the Holy Grail.........
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It is most definitely a service, attached is the official House of Commons document outlining the principles.
Well, we only need to look at the US to see what happens when you constantly beat the Police up over their actions, I was watching a documentary recently showing Pittsburg and some of it's inner city areas, the police were sitting in their cars out of sight of the disturbances. Their view was if they intervened they would be accused of Police Brutality or Racial discrimination, whereas if they were out of sight and waited for the protagonists to exhaust themselves then arrived on scene and merely picked up the pieces the worst could happen, to them, was they could be accused collectively of tardiness but no individual officer could be accused of brutality or discrimination. So safe ground really.
The moral of this story is don't wish for what you might just get.
I would be extremely annoyed if the police came searching my warehouse on our industrial estate as would many other businesses on site. The landlord is horrid and has rented out some of the scabbier units to some rather dodgy individuals but that doesn't give the Police the right to enter legitimate businesses. The landlord doesn't have access to our warehouse and it is fully alarmed. I suspect where there are distinct separate businesses the Police treat them very differently to multiple lockups under the same roof.
@northwest @ajlelectronics
That's an interesting link, thanks. I don't have the time to go through it now but in the first few pages both "service" and "force" are used; the first as a descriptor for the whole organisation, the second for individual county elements. I need to read the rest to see if the two are defined.
I'd be surprised if we couldn't all agree that policing by consensus is a very difficult task, not one that I'd wish to have to do myself and I'm happy to have a professional police service. It seems to me that one of the tests of society is the way in which power is exercised and how the exercise of that power is held to account and examined.
Nobody could dispute that there have been many egregious transgressions by people with a warrant card front all levels of the service.
It's the nature of any organisation to close ranks in the face of criticism, especially an organisation that may have to deal with life threatening events however trust and consensus are not well served by secrecy and defensive obfuscation.
The good officers (or should they be called servants now?) are tainted by the actions of the bad.
Then there's the whole issue of the political use of policing. I def don't have the time to go into that now but I could confidently assert that the political misuse of the police service has continued through governments of all shades.
That's an interesting link, thanks. I don't have the time to go through it now but in the first few pages both "service" and "force" are used; the first as a descriptor for the whole organisation, the second for individual county elements. I need to read the rest to see if the two are defined.
I'd be surprised if we couldn't all agree that policing by consensus is a very difficult task, not one that I'd wish to have to do myself and I'm happy to have a professional police service. It seems to me that one of the tests of society is the way in which power is exercised and how the exercise of that power is held to account and examined.
Nobody could dispute that there have been many egregious transgressions by people with a warrant card front all levels of the service.
It's the nature of any organisation to close ranks in the face of criticism, especially an organisation that may have to deal with life threatening events however trust and consensus are not well served by secrecy and defensive obfuscation.
The good officers (or should they be called servants now?) are tainted by the actions of the bad.
Then there's the whole issue of the political use of policing. I def don't have the time to go into that now but I could confidently assert that the political misuse of the police service has continued through governments of all shades.
ajlelectronics
Member
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addjunkie
Member
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- Northumberland. Reet oot in the sticks
This aside….I think we are quite lucky with our police folk. They could be an awful lot worse, and those among us who are well travelled will have a similar view.
Sadly they have evolved into what we have now, due to too many doo gooders interfering and the feral scum they sometimes have to deal with.
There are good and bad in all walks of life, these police folk are just expecting the worst most of the time.
What is do goodery? Is an examination of events interference?
Have the families of the victims of the Hillsborough tragedy been interfering while seeking the truth in the face of constant institutional lies and obstruction?
And the victims of Hillsborough weren't the feral scum that they were said to be by police, politicians, press and many more.
Do the terms "do gooders" and "feral scum" have any meaning beyond a hateful expression of insecurity?
I've had plenty of stuff nicked over the years, I didn't like it but I got over it. I've been assaulted physically & verbally, again not nice & sometimes takes a while to get over but again you get through it. By far the scummiest behaviour towards me has been by people who feel that their wealth excuses them from the need to respect others.
I've had people question my motives, they probably had the best of intentions and sometimes it's definitely been interfering but that's life.
I'd rather deal with all that stuff than live in an environment that tries to control our every action.
