Peugeot partner 1.6 HDi crank no start

[Guineafowl]

2014, 50,000 miles.

After a cold night, wouldn’t start but was cranking well.

I went to have a look, odd clicking and whining noise from around the injectors went on a few minutes with ignition on. Might just be some shutdown thing/egr cleaning.

Tried Easystart - no difference.

Fuses all ok. No DTCs (except old EGR one - insufficient flow)

Tried banging the tank to jog fuel pump.

Towed it a few miles back to my place for a proper look, tried the key and it started.

All I can think is a dodgy in-tank fuel pump or relay that got jogged on the journey, but why didn’t it start on easystart?

 

[jordhandson]

Dont suppose the ecu needs rebooting have you tried disconnecting and reconnecting the battery. on father Disco 3 you can do a hard clearance of any glitches

 

[stuvy]

Dont suppose the ecu needs rebooting have you tried disconnecting and reconnecting the battery. on father Disco 3 you can do a hard clearance of any glitches

Disconnect it for 10 mins to be sure it’s reset
An old mondeo a work colleague owned had the same issue and this was the cure

 

[Guineafowl]

No, didn’t try that. Van is running anyway.

Could do with knowing what it might have been, in case it recurs, and also, what would prevent a common rail engine starting on easystart?

 

[jordhandson]

No, didn’t try that. Van is running anyway.

Could do with knowing what it might have been, in case it recurs, and also, what would prevent a common rail engine starting on easystart?

I recon obviously a glitch from the ecu sometimes just turning the key off and on can have a effect my Nissan 350 sometimes did it that way.

 

[carbonarc]

A check on the heater plugs might point to the starting problem. With a simple multimeter it should be possible to rule out open circuits and high resistance. Used plugs should each have a resistance of around 6 Ohms. Good luck.

 

[jordhandson]

doubt its the glow plugs if it would not start on easy start, pretty much start anything that stuff

 

[m_c]

No, didn’t try that. Van is running anyway.

Could do with knowing what it might have been, in case it recurs, and also, what would prevent a common rail engine starting on easystart?

Unless you pulled the intercooler hose off, and sprayed it in near the inlet manifold, it has a lot of pipework to go through to get to the cylinders.

As to why it wouldn't start, you really need to see live data. Anything else is just a pure guess.

 

[Guineafowl]

Live data was a bit flaky on my Foxwell scanner. High side fuel pressure was fluctuating 50-400 MPa, but at the time that didn’t mean much as I was looking for psi figures, and had no way of converting. I would expect a DTC if the high side pressure was not adequate, but might be wrong.

I look for about 30 psi low side, 30,000 psi high side as a rule of thumb. Looks like 200 kPa to 200 MPa on the conversion.

Fuel did pee out of the low side test port when the key was turned on.

On the TD4 Freelander, which I know quite well, there’s a protection feature which prevents starting if the low side fuel pressure is too low. They also get fuel pressure regulator failures. Might be something to do with that.

 

[m_c]

You're looking for at least 100bar (10MPa) during cranking to provide enough pressure for the injectors to physically open (they're an amplifying design, where the solenoid only opens a pilot valve, which then uses/needs the hydraulic pressure to physically open the nozzle).
400MPa (4000bar) sounds far too high, so I'd question the validity of the live data. If the values are accurate, I suspect the units are wrong, and should be Bar instead of MPa, in which case the values sound good.

Key things I'd be looking at are Mass Air Flow, Manifold Pressure, Fuel rail pressure, crank RPM, and crank/cam synchronisation. Not all ecus output sync, so next best thing is to check for fuel injection quantity. If the injectors are injecting, it's a good sign the crank/cam are in sync. Those are the critical values that need to be plausible for the engine to start.

 

[Guineafowl]

MAF was showing about 2g/s on crank. Again, the same problem with units. I’m looking for mg/stroke. If I scan anything it’s usually a Land Rover product. I’ve got the GAPIID which gives much better coverage,

I could have tried unplugging the MAF sensor, I suppose. I wonder what problem would have resolved itself by being towed a few miles?

 

[m_c]

What value the ECU outputs for MAF varies. Some output the actual measured MAF, others output the calculated volume.
Increasing to 2g/s shows there is at least some air movement, but I'd have to find a similar vehicle to see what it should be. The more important reading is MAP, just to make sure there isn't a vacuum being drawn in the inlet manifold. The MAF is more to see if there is air movement, as modern diesels often won't inject fuel until they see air being drawn in.

 

[Turbo]

If you disconnect & reconnect the battery please follow the peugeot BSI shutdown guide (google it). If you don't do it correctly your vehicle may start to have all sorts of strange electrical gremlins like central locking/windows/lights not working correctly. If they do happen it sometimes takes several disconnects/reconnects following the proper procedure before it's fixed!

 

[Guineafowl]

It hasn’t missed a beat since.

We were wondering if the diesel could have frozen a bit. Being March, it might not have as much winter additives.

 

[Guineafowl]

It’s happened again!

Same thing, cold night, then no start next morning.

Replaced the fuel filter housing (with primer pump) as it can leak air, apparently. It started afterwards (eventually) but now won’t.

No particular fault codes.

Live values during cranking:
Cam/crank sync OK
Rail pressure - 450 bar
Fuel 55mg/impulse
Inj time 2.5ms
Airflow 200-400 mg/impulse

MAP not available but the intake hose was disconnected after the intercooler for easystart.

Again, with ignition on there’s a strange whining/clicking sound from the engine bay.

 

[Mr Fixer]

I have a 2006 Partner with the 1.6Hdi fitted. I’ve had a similar issue where the engine power would cut for a split second occasionally from cold, whilst accelerating. It would also occasionally take ages to crank into life from a cold start. I have one of the cheapy code readers and it showed this error

It’s something to do with the preheat circuit according to Google. It went on for a couple of years like this now and again until eventually it completely cut out when I’d just left home, and wouldn’t restart. I plugged in the reader again and it showed this error now

I gave the crank sensor a wiggle and it started again, so I ordered a new one, fitted it and it’s been good for 6 months or so now.

Again, with ignition on there’s a strange whining/clicking sound from the engine bay.

Mine does this and has since I acquired it about 6 years ago. You can hear it after you’ve got out and locked the car. It does it for several seconds and then fades away. Not sure if it isn’t the intake manifold flap?

 

[Guineafowl]

Since the injectors are firing and the cam/crank sync is ok I assume it’s not the crank sensor, but worth a try.

It’s not my van, but the owner says the whining/clicking constantly with key on is unusual. I assume it’s some sort of EGR/flap clearing sequence that’s gone a bit haywire.

I’m thinking fuelling problem because it started briefly after fiddling with the fuel system.

Could it be injector leakback, made worse by the cold and now established? I say this mainly because I have a leakback test kit somewhere.

 

[Mr Fixer]

Sorry I can’t be of any more help. Don’t know too much about these engines, other than general servicing of them. Maybe @doubleboost could give you some help. I think he has one of these?

 

[Guineafowl]

Sorry I can’t be of any more help. Don’t know too much about these engines, other than general servicing of them. Maybe @doubleboost could give you some help. I think he has one of these?

Not at all - thanks for the suggestions.

I don’t know these engines, and don’t trust my test gear, so am at the clutching-straws stage of diagnostics!

 

[Guineafowl]

The van has had a look over by a chap with a more Peugeot-friendly scan tool. Stuck EGR valve apparently, although not sure why it caused a complete no-start, even with easystart and lots of cranking.