peculier mild steel

[paulmowers]

Hi Guys

I have just bought a load of mild steel as part of an order for making a gate, I used the same supplier I have always used, most of it is fine the 30 x 6 flat is the same as ever, the problen is with the 25 x 3, rather than rounded edges this stuff is sharp 90 deg corners, looks as if its been sheared rather than rolled. I have just been trying to cold form a scroll with the first bit, as I have done many times before but this stuff is hard to pull round, almost like a bit of bi metal spring, when it does bend it goes in kinks and when released springs away from the former, it looked a mess.
So am now doing the same with the metal hot, this works ok but it is still inclined to kink. Also is taking far far too long to complete, I have 16 singles and 6 double scrolls in this gate, plus 6 twisted bars, fcuk knows how they will turn out!!
Could it be if it is mild steel that has been sheared, would this have caused some kind of work hardening to it?
And if so can I make it soft simply by heating to red and allowing to cool?

Thanks Paul..

 

[scott0031]

I cant see that any sheering has caused the problem you describe. It can only really be duff, badly produced material or its the wrong material. Phone the supplier and send it back and ask for the right stuff.

If its just hot rolled m/s you asked for then thats what you should get. Its their problem and shouldnt be made into your problem.

One thing to keep in mind, Its likely to give you problems welding it, you might find it becomes brittle with the properties you mentioned.

Kind regards,

Scott (ward eng)

 

[Bsmith]

I'm not saying that its the same but, I have seen steel like this. Mild steel formed in a press rather than rolled. It had been polished for some special job but got slight rusting before it was due to be used and so sold on as mild steel. Don't know if heating and slow cooling will anneal as its hardness is problably due to compression. Brian (",).

 

[scott0031]

I'm not saying that its the same but, I have seen steel like this. Mild steel formed in a press rather than rolled. It had been polished for some special job but got slight rusting before it was due to be used and so sold on as mild steel. Don't know if heating and slow cooling will anneal as its hardness is problably due to compression. Brian (",).

Bet ya it was sold as mild but actually wasnt Its called tying to off load worthless stock on unsespecting customers............. had it several time before.

 

[Arsonista]

As Scott said, before you go too far, weld a bit and test it. Or send it back.

 

[Paul.]

It sounds like its bright flat which is finished by cold rolling, rather than black which is hot rolled, what lengths are they, brights generally come in 3mtrs, black will be 4 or 6m lengths.

 

[KTMMICK]

SEND IT BACK BEFORE you use to much

 

[paulmowers]

Thanks for all the advice.

I have now tried welding it, and it does weld ok, tried to make the weld crack by bending but no signs of any brittleness there so should be ok.

I have had bright bar before which was bright all over, this is definately black on top and bottom with bright edges, it is also very slightly convex or concave if you turn it over which made me think it had been sheared from a big sheet.

Lenth of it was a bit shorter than the normal 6m I get but longer than 3m (its all cut up now) but I think they would have been about 4.8m

Working it hot does seem to work ok, although a slow process.

Sending it back is not really an option as this gate has to be constructed this week, to be painted early next week and fitted by 7th october so I will have to make the best of the steel Ive got.

They wont get away with supplying me with sub standard steel again as the next time i order any i will tell them i dont want any more of the crap they sent last time!

Can anyone suggest a good steel stockholder in norfolk that delivers, apart from Ace metals (the culprits) or yarmouth steel (who dont want to know unless you have 100,s of pounds worth a month)

Cheers Paul..

 

[Welderpaul]

Yeah, sounds like bright steel. All the bright steel we have has razor sharp edges, nasty stuff to handle, especially the larger sections. Welds just as normal mild steel, has a shiny finish, is tougher than mild and tends to be very greasy where as black flats have millscale rather than grease to prevent corrosion.
Wouldt stand that tho mate, that bar will be pennies to them, tell them its a bag of sh1te and to get you some more out foc.

 

[paulmowers]

I will have to be a lot more specific when ordering steel in the future. mind you he knows i always use black mild, but when ordering I didn't specify type, just size, having said that the 30 x 6 was black, 12 round was black, and a couple of 25 x 25 x 3 were also black.
Probably thought i wouldn't notice the difference.
Thanks for identifying for me, much apreciated.
cheers

 

[paulmowers]

first set of scrolls

Hi Guys

Finished the first batch of scrolls, formed hot, pic shows how they will go together in the bottom panel of gate, obviously need cleaning up.
Only 12 more to do for the top section, and then the twists
Oh and a pic of my little forge.

 

[Bigjoe]

How about ASD?

A S D Norfolk Steel

Hamlin Way
King's Lynn
Norfolk
PE30 4LQ

 

[paulmowers]

Thanks big joe

They may be a bit far from me to deliver as i am in south norfolk near the river waveney, but i will see what they say.

Cheers Paul

 

[Hitch]

Bit late now.... but it sounds like BMS (bright mild steel) to me... strips sheared off a sheet shouldnt be hardly any different to the black flat bar. I often shear sheet to make the odd small section scrolls, as we dont keep harly any small flat like that.
Id have moaned....then next time ask for some discount.

 

[Bsmith]

What powers your forge plz Paul? Mine is a fan off an old tumble dryer driven by an electric motor. Brian (",).

 

[paulmowers]

Hi Brian

Originally I built the manual fan from an old car wheel, with plywood vanes shaped to match the internal curves, it worked ok but the fire tended to go dead if I was away for more than a couple of minutes, so I fitted up a small electric fan blowing down to intersect the main blow pipe, this keeps it going quite well and i still have the hand crank to boost it up when needed, and to blast out ash from the fire pot.
pic below.

Paul..

 

[Bsmith]

Wow!! thats a well built piece of equipment. Looking at the copper pipes, is the tue iron water cooled to stop it over-heating and wasting away?

 

[paulmowers]

Water cooling, yes it is, the idea is that when i get my waste / wood burner running it will be plumbed in with the forge to supplement workshop heating pumped through radiators, at the moment it has no cooling so have to be a bit careful not to get the coals too white.

 

[Bsmith]

Great idea. Yes I know what your saying about the blow pipe/tue iron. Mine is a heavy lump of wheel centre hub off an old farm hay rake. Its cast iron, no cooling and so far it has never got very hot but then I don't use the forge for long periods. You're doing a great job, good luck with it.

 

[Bsmith]

Ohh I forgot to say, The blacksmith that I did my apprenticeship with always used to stick in a log of wood to keep the fire going when he was away from the bellows, I do it too and it works fine.