Panel beating/shape forming

[Welderpaul]

I'm in the process of sorting out the nose cone for my tractor. I've sorted out the rest of the panels, now just left with the hardest one. It's had one or two shunts on the nose over its life, but I've managed to knock everything back into shape. The most testing bit is where the badge sits - It is an oval raised section...or should be...mine is a bit of a flattened creased mess. Someone has done a fair job of tidying it up and burying it all in filler, but i would like to knock it back to shape and have it a bit more original.
I have various panel beating hammers, but need a former. Reading up on it, someone made a 'female former' in the end of a tree trunk and used that to form it over. Would a panel beating sandbag work?
This is fairly thick metal..around 1.2mm, so takes a bit of hitting to get the metal moving. Any thoughts welcomed!

 

[optima21]

I can remember seeing someone post a picture on here (or possibly a video) of a U channel about 6 inches across with large holes in various diameters it that was used in the same way as stump for forming the breastplate of a suit of armour.

think you might struggle to get much definition with a sandbag.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Make a female moulding out of GRP laid up over original part, needs to be about 5-6mm thick. Put this into a box of some sort and back it up using body filler and chipboard or MDF, so its solid. Then use that to form replacement part, with body hammers.

 

[711jrp]

If I'm understanding what you are saying right if it's been damaged and repaired twice in the past and now it's a crumpled mess under the filler I don't think it's a simple matter of potting it in a former and giving it a good bashing, It's going to be stretched out quite a bit and will need shrinking or cutting out and letting in a new piece that you can make in a former.

 

[Thrashsmith]

I've never done any panel beating but I've made lots of bowls (from 3mm to 8mm thick mild steel) and the principal is the same and goes back to how medieval armour used to be formed, by "sinking" and "raising".
The tree stump hollow method you mentioned is sinking, (hammering down) into a depression to make the sides raise up into a U shape. Raising is more tricky and involves hammering the metal over a corved former (steel sphere, dolly etc). Half the difficulty with this method is just holding a large amount of steel with one hand and keeping it steady. The other problem is that you can't see the dolly, unless you're working right at the edge of the sheet.
Critically with both methods the idea is not to hammer onto the steel, thus pinching it and making it thinner, (not really an issue when you're making an 8mm plate bowl but will do when you're working on 1.2mm sheet!!!), you're looking to push the metal over the curve of the former.
In my workshop, (blacksmith), I have one of my leg vises mounted on a mahoosive tree stump that I have left flat in one area and in another area have ground out a depression like you mentioned. Using the combination of the two, and a hide mallet, I can straighten out twists that have gone Lady Gaga.
When I make bowls under my fly press I have a variety of top dies (100mm solid sphere being the one I most often use) and for the bottom I have a variety of sized oxygen cylinder bottoms that I cut off, so interchanging the bottom dies affects the radius of the curve. That's all sinking.
Consider the angle you're holding the sheet at and the angle you're hammering from. When I give smithing lessons I tell people that what's not on the anvil is as important as what is - forming scroll centres happens off the edge of the anvil, not on it. If you hold the sheet at a 45 degree angle to a surface and hit into the middle of the sheet, you're still gunna put a bend in it. Hit it with a 2lb ball pein and you'll make one kind of impression, hit it with a 4lb hide mallet and you'll make another.
Hopefully that ramble is of some use.
And this video I found a while ago when I was teaching myself bowl making.

 

[Gareth J]

I had to do this very job on an old mf35 after I used an electric pole as an emergency brake the other day. Oops.

It came back reasonably well with just a cheap panel beating kit and a lump of wood to get the concave back to convex to start with.

I did have a go at annealing it to start with. I don't know how much it helped but can't hurt. The shape of the steel will sort of be in there still so its not like you really need a former as if you were making it from sheet. However, in flatenning out the creases, it'll stretch a bit. I wasn't too worried as it's a worker rather than a show tractor a little skim of filler will be fine.

The thicker steel is nicer to work with rather than car bodywork.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I made 3 sand beater bags of different sizes from a leather welding apron with Velcro to seal the filling point. I used kiln dried sand as a filling medium and they have worked well.
I use a teardrop mallet to form a well in the bag first and then place the steel panel over the well and use a combination of mallets and ball pein hammers to form the required shape and then planish with a hammer and dolly.
Anything with strong definition needs to be formed over a wooden or steel edge although I have used plastic chopping boards cut into various curved profiles with good success.

 

[Kent]

Could it be spun?

Other than that I should use an ash stump

Might be tempted to let the flat bit in nobody will ever know and let's face it they were made on a huge press in one when new

 

[Kent]

Obviously looking again it can't be spun

 

[Welderpaul]

Thanks all. So...

1. Here's how it started. It has an shaped badge which sits on a raised oval area. It's had a clonk on it's nose at some time, someone has straightened most of it out but didn't bother with this bit. It had been battered totally flat and the badge glued on. I want it restored as close as i can get it to how it was, so can't live with a bodge like that

2. Find a suitable log on a convenient Easter walk. "Why are you carrying that log back with you? You are like having a dog!!!"

3. Mark out a chisel out the required shape (From soggy wood)

4. Hammer away with various hammers, check, more hammering. A bit of a depth to get in so made up a shaped drift from copper square bar to get a bit of definition on the curves. Surprising how much metal was moved without anything ripping. A nice fit with the badge on, shown in the picture.
Needs a bit of tweaking here and there, as does the rest of it, and some filler needed, but only really on the dents that i can't get to the back of because of a spot welded inner frame.

 

[harryb94]

Nice work! Any more photos of the rebuild?

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Nicely done. I gave a set of major bonnet badges away a few weeks ago, had I known I'd've gifted them to you however I am trying to weedle a major off a friend

 

[Thrashsmith]

So close to finishing I can almost taste the 50% balance...

 

[Thrashsmith]

So close to finishing I can almost taste the 50% balance...View attachment 82324

Doh! Posted this to the wrong thread and too dumb to know how to delete/move it. Could a moderator shunt this over to this thread? http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/polish-ebay-ring-roller.62908/page-2