Oxy acetylene regs & hoses for propane ?

[defender dan]

Hi I purchased what was advertised as an Oxy propane set up from a private listing on ebay, but the regulator I got is for acetylene and the hoses have rmx on them. From what I`ve read I should be ok using this set up with propane, but thought I would confirm with more knowledgeable people on here. The set up is all new I just thought I would check before having to try returning it.

Dan

 

[Brad93]

Nope nope nope!

Acetylene reg is only 1.5bar a propane reg is 4bar.
Red hoses for acetylene, orange hoses for propane. Orange and red striped hoses for either gas.

Hoses should be marked ISO EN 3821, which is the international standard for oxy-fuel hoses. The hoses should clearly state propane or acetylene or Universal which means multi fuel.

Hoses should have check or non return valves at one end.

Regulators should be stamped BS EN 2503 and be stamped with a retirement date which is normally 5 years. The gauges on the regulator should be marked ISO5171.

You should also be using flashback arresters between the regulator and the hoses. The shock valves go at the blow torch End.

 

[Brad93]

Check valves should be EN 739 Pt2

Flashback arrestors are EN739 pt1

Hose assemblies (so that's the rubber hose, the check valves and the associated connection hardware all assembled) is BS 1256.

 

[Brad93]

Acetylene and propane hoses CANNOT be used vice-versa.

Acetylene is dissolved in Acetone.
Red Acetylene specific hoses have a neoprene liner which isn't degraded by the acetone.

Propane contains a stenching agent Methane.
Methane attacks neoprene so orange propane specific hoses have a nitrile liner

 

[defender dan]

the regs are marked on rear insp/rep 2018 & on the white dial faces with EN562 & on the front of the oxy/acetylene reg with EN ISO 2503. There are flashback arrestors fitted marked ISO 5175 and EN730-1. They are also marked with different pressures on them Acetylene 1.5 bar/22psi, Hydrogen 3.5 bar/50 psi & Fuel gases 5 bar/72 psi. Hoses have BS EN 559 ISO 3821 - 2 MPa 20 BAR - 10MM-RMX-WELDGAS-2013. I bought these with the intention of hobby use at home.
Thank`s for the info provided so far Brad.

 

[Brad93]

Flashback arrestors can by used with all gases and yours have the correct marking so as long as they are in date your okay.

You say about home use. You have a duty of care to yourself and others under the acetylene safety regulations. If you had an accident in your garage and blew up half the street, you are liable if that equipment was out of date or incorrectly used. It is a legal requirement to use the correct oxy-fuel gas equipment and safety devices.
PUWER also comes into play.

Your hoses are fine for Acetylene use as long as they are in good condition. Check the non-return valves are there.
They cannot be used for propane.

 

[defender dan]

I wanted to go the propane route, rather than having an acetylene bottle bubbling away at home. We use oxy acetylene at work frequently and the hoses are new just no good for propane then.

 

[Brad93]

Nope. Acetylene is a perfectly safe gas if you treat it with respect.

 

[Brad93]

R

Nope. Acetylene is a perfectly safe gas if you treat it with respect.

emeber you only need one propane hose. You don't need another oxygen hose.

 

[Brad93]

Hose £24+Vat http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/DisplayItem.aspx?c=071261175P

Regulator £33+VAt
http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/DisplayItem.aspx?c=0785-2154&zl=2

As I was saying your Acetylene reg is only 1.5bar so 4bar from a propane bottle will just destroy the encapsulated valve and diaphragm

 

[Kent]

I wanted to go the propane route, rather than having an acetylene bottle bubbling away at home. We use oxy acetylene at work frequently and the hoses are new just no good for propane then.

Main reason people use propane is cost. No monthly rentals. If your not gas welding it's the way to go.
Safety wise the insurance regs have again been changed so it's no longer seen as an extra risk. That said in a small workshop it has very much lower mix ratios for a bang. Both need respect though and should not be stored indoors.
Personally I would not go back to accetelyn and it's created a few issues to the likes of boc sales that many feel the same

 

[voipio]

Not sure how the 4 bar from a propane bottle would normally find its way to an acetylene regulator's output stage. Acetylene cylinder pressure is much higher, starting at around 15 bar when full. Propane's cylinder pressure is quite temperature-dependent, when there is liquid propane in the cylinder, being around 5 bar at 20 degC, but rising to 6 or 7 bar in the shade on a day like today.

Also, from an earlier posting, methane is not the odorant used with propane. It has no noticeable odour. Ethanethiol (or ethyl mercaptan) is used.

 

[Brad93]

Not sure how the 4 bar from a propane bottle would normally find its way to an acetylene regulator's output stage. Acetylene cylinder pressure is much higher, starting at around 15 bar when full. Propane's cylinder pressure is quite temperature-dependent, when there is liquid propane in the cylinder, being around 5 bar at 20 degC, but rising to 6 or 7 bar in the shade on a day like today.

Also, from an earlier posting, methane is not the odorant used with propane. It has no noticeable odour. Ethanethiol (or ethyl mercaptan) is used.

Oh really? I was told it was methane.

Nope you're somewhat wrong there, the acetylene bottle contents are pressurised to 15bar, which is fine as it's dissolved.

The gas that is allowed past the encapsulated valve in the neck of the bottle is limited to 1.5bar. Any more and the acetylene would decompose and become unstable.
Put a propane reg on an acetylene bottle no problem. You could crank it right in but the valve in the neck of the bottle is limiting output to a safe 1.5.

However put an acetylene reg on a propane bottle the reg is only made to handle more than 1.5bar, when the propane usually escapes the bottle at up to 4 bar.

 

[Kent]

Oh really? I was told it was methane.

Nope you're somewhat wrong there, the acetylene bottle contents are pressurised to 15bar, which is fine as it's dissolved.

The gas that is allowed past the encapsulated valve in the neck of the bottle is limited to 1.5bar. Any more and the acetylene would decompose and become unstable.
Put a propane reg on an acetylene bottle no problem. You could crank it right in but the valve in the neck of the bottle is limiting output to a safe 1.5.

However put an acetylene reg on a propane bottle the reg is only made to handle more than 1.5bar, when the propane usually escapes the bottle at up to 4 bar.

I think methane is actually scent less to humans is it not?

 

[Kayos]

Methane hasn't any odour, it's the main constituent in natural gas tho

 

[mcostello]

Been using Red hoses for propane around 30 years, no problems. Glad We do not have all those rules over here.

 

[Brad93]

Been using Red hoses for propane around 30 years, no problems. Glad We do not have all those rules over here.

Not a problem till your hose bursts and sets fire to half your shop.

 

[Kent]

Been using Red hoses for propane around 30 years, no problems. Glad We do not have all those rules over here.

For like £20 you can avoid a whole lot of trouble, maybe even a life saved? This isn't just a jobsworth colour thing