Out with the old, in with the new, and its still not leaking.

[optima21]

after 43 years service, by old Concord WRC boiler has finally given up the ghost.

it started with a couple of drops leaking just before xmas, but had got up to about 2 litres an hour when working

so today it got replaced with an Intergas Rapid 32, and was a combi conversion. (not done by me, if it was summer I's have done most of the work with a friend or two)

but at least the radiator I shortened 20 years ago still isn't leaking. I'd recently got my first welder, a Clarke Pro Mig 90, and this was one of my first jobs with it. I wanted to move it from one wall to another, but it was then too long, so I cut in half and removed a section, then welded it back together.

a few years ago I did cost up replacing the boiler. with a more efficient one, but worked out that it would take 25 years to recover the cost of a new boiler in which case a new boiler may need to be replaced twice........somehow I don't think the new one will give me 40+ years service.

 

[optima21]

now Ive had this new boiler in for a month (and during the winter) I've kept the usage being essentially the same, apart from when I do the washing up, now I'm using the boiler rather than boiling a kettle.. The old boiler could operate the heating and domestic water independantly, with the cylinder stat being at 50c and the heating being set so that the radiators were at aprox 60C, so it would have been used as efficently as possible. II mean there is no point in paying to heat up water thats too hot and then putting cold water in the bath to cool it down. also my heating thermostat was set at 13 and most days during in the winter was on for a couple of hours (but would be more if it was cold)
so last year my gas usage was 168 units to the day that my boiler was changed, and thats 14 units per months. Last month my gas usage was 17 units (519kWh) of energy usage). so at first glance there will be a big saving over the summer, but I would still be using the old boiler if the heat exchanger hadnt gone, as the new boiler will take decades to offset the installation cost compared to the energy usage savings. If I used more energy for heating the house or hot water, then the payback time would be much quicker. I'll update this after a year for a real world comparison, of energy consumption between old and new systems.

 

[optima21]

well Ive had this boiler fitted a year now, in the last year Ive used 90 units of gas with the new boiler used in a similar manner to the old one (and my cooking being roughly the same) compared to 168 units in the previous year with 40+ year old boiler. this is 2414 kwh less gas usage and at approx 7.42p per kwh has "saved" me roughly £180 at todays rates (using current prices which have reduced). these are real figures, and assuming my calculations are correct, as a low gas user, it would have made sense to keep my old boiler as its going to be quiet a few years before the savings add up to the installation cost of the new boiler.

 

[Smallfry]

Mum used to have one of those Concord boilers. Very reliable it was too, no silly PCBs to fail, and very easy to fix. She had it for 25 odd years, until she was "persuaded" to have a new efficient one fitted. Which was a disaster, but thats another story.
I think a big part of difference in consumption was the pilot light, which was burning all the time. It would blow out sometimes, but the flame failure device would shut off the gas.
I would fit a boiler myself, as I have done several over the years. I don't know where they get this £3K installation cost from, for less than a days work. As you say, when you work it out, the payback time is years, AND, the new boiler will fail before then, and will either need a lot of money spending, IF an engineer can actually find the fault, or replacing.

 

[Kayos]

Ideal Concorde, one of the heaviest wall mounted boilers known to man, it comes in second only to the Gloworm Space saver

How do you find the Intergas? I like the concept and fitted a few heat only boilers but never saw a reason to fit the combis over the brands I was using

The notion of payback in a domestic setting is actually laughable, how about you install a boiler for reliable hot water and heating? Any gas savings are just a bonus. Not aimed at @optima21 in particular, just a running theme when big lumps of cast iron Vs modern boilers are discussed

 

[gaz1]

id have replaced that rad to a newer model that has fins they work out much better in the long run

even fitting a double rad with double fins and boxed in gives a much better btu ratio of output

ive also had the discussion of getting one on a grant many dont realise they need to fully rip out the old system to get the grant and that only allows 5 rads and a boiler

 

[dobbslc]

ive also had the discussion of getting one on a grant many dont realise they need to fully rip out the old system to get the grant and that only allows 5 rads and a boiler

How does this grant work Gaz?
I've completely replaced my central heating system and boiler, would I qualify?

 

[optima21]

Mum used to have one of those Concord boilers. Very reliable it was too, no silly PCBs to fail, and very easy to fix. She had it for 25 odd years, until she was "persuaded" to have a new efficient one fitted. Which was a disaster, but thats another story.

mine was ultra reliable it had a new gas valve fitted about 20 years ago, no servicing since, not even a new thermocouple, and the pilot light never went out, during summer I could have turned the gas off so the pilot light went out, but then I might have had issues relighting it, so that didnt happen.

Ideal Concorde, one of the heaviest wall mounted boilers known to man, it comes in second only to the Gloworm Space saver

How do you find the Intergas? I like the concept and fitted a few heat only boilers but never saw a reason to fit the combis over the brands I was using

The notion of payback in a domestic setting is actually laughable, how about you install a boiler for reliable hot water and heating? Any gas savings are just a bonus. Not aimed at @optima21 in particular, just a running theme when big lumps of cast iron Vs modern boilers are discussed

yeah the plumbers had a good workout removing the old boiler, but that was their problem, not mine
the new boiler is a boiler, the plumber decided to fit the Intergas based on my needs, as I wanted a long life and didnt use it that much. another consideration was that they will run on less than 1 bar of pressure, which was a consideration due to my welded radiator.

If I was a average user of gas (11,500 KWH) that would cost £850 a year (at current rates plus standing charges), and my old boiler used 5300KWH, so a saving of £390 a year due a more efficient boiler would have meant I would have changed it earlier.

id have replaced that rad to a newer model that has fins they work out much better in the long run

even fitting a double rad with double fins and boxed in gives a much better btu ratio of output

my radiators are like storage heaters, by not having fins they retain the heat longer, rather than dissipating the heat.
ohh and today (by conincidence) Ive finally put the sim into my new phone from my old phone. I have replaced one of my Sony Ericsson K700's which Ive been using since 2009. This was brought about as due to the imminent 3G switch off (although 2G is still available so it would still work), but there are a couple of features that are handy with a smartphone for me, like GPS and being able to click on a link in a text message, but as I only want a smartphone for occasional use and want a small one, I decided to to for a Unihertz phone. I got a Unihertz Jelly 2 (bought 2nd hand but unused for £70) and was tempted to get a new Unihertz Jelly Star, but would have been looking for 5G on a new phone but they are only 4G

Jelly 2 - Small Android 11 Phone (General)

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I dont think I'll be getting an EV in a years time though.

 

[gaz1]

How does this grant work Gaz?
I've completely replaced my central heating system and boiler, would I qualify?

to get the grant of boiler and rads you have to remove everything above the floor

that means no boiler or rads on the wall

some plumbers except the pipes been already installed but some dont, personally id take my copper pipe out as well as some just cut it up for there scrap

with the grant inspector who visits if they see a boiler on the wall they can refuse the boiler you might be lucky and get the rads free but expect that you wont get them
some with rads being on the wall

any plumbing up to them and they refuse you the grant

they can question if you have a basic boiler that isnt a combi as you dont really need the boiler and rads on the grant

sometimes you may get a boiler on the grant but soemtimes you dont it all depends on who visits

 

[gaz1]

my radiators are like storage heaters, by not having fins they retain the heat longer, rather than dissipating the heat.

whilst the newer ones are better for getting more heat into the room they also last a full 3/4hr to 1 hr before they start to turn cold

running a system once every hr on the hr is more than ample enough to keep your home warm

for your maths instead of running every 2hrs for 30 mins with flash heat 6 times lighting of the boiler, you can run a system for 15 mins every hr 12 times
as the house starts to compile the heat and therfore dosnt go cold

gas reference is 66 including 2 meals a day

 

[dobbslc]

Mmm I'm not sure I'll qualify as I've already installed everything new from the boiler out to the rads. No old pipe in use at all.

 

[gaz1]

lol its the same with the wall insulation grant

if you dont have pics of the previous before rip out they can refuse to do the grant

they wasnt happy with the walls being bare ( back to brick or stone ) even though you are installing a proper damp coarse against the wall it was very close to being refused
previous pics helped

all they had to do was screw up against wood timbers with the new plasterboard insulation the back wall was just stuck on with pink gripfil

 

[optima21]

whilst the newer ones are better for getting more heat into the room they also last a full 3/4hr to 1 hr before they start to turn cold

running a system once every hr on the hr is more than ample enough to keep your home warm

for your maths instead of running every 2hrs for 30 mins with flash heat 6 times lighting of the boiler, you can run a system for 15 mins every hr 12 times
as the house starts to compile the heat and therfore dosnt go cold

gas reference is 66 including 2 meals a day

you do it your way, I'll do it mine, Ive said nothing about how often I use my heating or what temperature it is set at, you've just plucked figures out of the air.

 

[gaz1]

Mmm I'm not sure I'll qualify as I've already installed everything new from the boiler out to the rads. No old pipe in use at all.

if you have a large house its worth stripping out

they only fit one boiler and fit 5 large rads as thats was what was fitted here

but we can extend the system rather well so our hidden rads and piping can be then used to add to the system

some propertys need 2 boilers and 2 systems plumbed in its worth doing so if your property is like this

 

[gaz1]

you do it your way, I'll do it mine, Ive said nothing about how often I use my heating or what temperature it is set at, you've just plucked figures out of the air.

i havent thats my own test on the system and also my results for a vailiant combi boiler ive also tried it on a vokera system on a house 2 storey like yours now its been tested via a 3 bed bungalow

and thats done with photos and times being the exact same and also the same meals im just advising you of my results

from being a plumber ive tended to catch how long it takes for each of the rad systems to cool down whilst im test running them

 

[optima21]

i havent thats my own test on the system and also my results for a vailiant combi boiler ive also tried it on a vokera system on a house 2 storey like yours now its been tested via a 3 bed bungalow

and thats done with photos and times being the exact same and also the same meals im just advising you of my results

from being a plumber ive tended to catch how long it takes for each of the rad systems to cool down whilst im test running the

and its not relevant to my heating system, next you'll be saying that I need to replace the microbore pipes and fit thermostatic radiator valves too, and maybe even balance the radiators, your thermostat is probably set much higher than mine and your flow temperature is likely to be hotter too. `but mine is fine as it is for my needs. Ultimately the boiler puts a certain amount of heat into the heating system and then it gets dissipated by the radiators, think about it another way, once you have the heat in the system, its just a total loss system, all the heat wants to do is escape.

 

[gaz1]

everyone has there own settings for there system

new rads are better than what they was, however i prefer the old cast rads they hold the heat in much longer though they take a while to heat up

ive never liked the new system

theres no need to change to trv valves if you dont want to do most systems didnt have them and worked perfectly fine in doing so though having a temp control on the valve does help in keeping a room at a set temp and shut off