One more reason why ebay is dying.

[My Old Landy]

Have you seen https://www.patreon.com/SharksWithL...0G8WNt7uuaXnYE_KJg_aem_r8o2kfC2kVDoagZ-hyHgYw

Jeremiah is brilliant and does free stuff as well as paid.

No I didn't know about him, cheers for the link.

 

[Keith 66]

Most of us use Amazon its just too convenient, otherwise its get in the car drive into wherever to find somewhere hasnt got what you want then run around other suppliers & waste half a day doing it.
As for craft businesses THe RHS run a few craft fairs during the year, It used to be organised & run in house & was filled with local or mostly local stallholders. Then they farmed the running of it out to an outfit who do all the big fairs all over the country. Result was all the locals got pushed out & replaced by full time dealers. It lost the local feel & vibe & became just the same as any other big event craft fair.
People start craft busineses because they want to make a bit of money on the side, I suspect if the truth be known it costs them more than they earn.
How many people got into laser cutting? It was the next big thing to make money, but so many people bought a cheap K40 the market was flooded with crap & it probably costs more to make the stuff than they can sell it for.
I used to make cigar box guitars, sold a few & gave some away but a business? No way. When the chinese started selling the things on ebay & they started appearing in music shops I thought sod this & gave up. Still build the odd one but only for people who deserve one.

 

[My Old Landy]

Most of us use Amazon its just too convenient, otherwise its get in the car drive into wherever to find somewhere hasnt got what you want then run around other suppliers & waste half a day doing it.
As for craft businesses THe RHS run a few craft fairs during the year, It used to be organised & run in house & was filled with local or mostly local stallholders. Then they farmed the running of it out to an outfit who do all the big fairs all over the country. Result was all the locals got pushed out & replaced by full time dealers. It lost the local feel & vibe & became just the same as any other big event craft fair.
People start craft busineses because they want to make a bit of money on the side, I suspect if the truth be known it costs them more than they earn.
How many people got into laser cutting? It was the next big thing to make money, but so many people bought a cheap K40 the market was flooded with crap & it probably costs more to make the stuff than they can sell it for.
I used to make cigar box guitars, sold a few & gave some away but a business? No way. When the chinese started selling the things on ebay & they started appearing in music shops I thought sod this & gave up. Still build the odd one but only for people who deserve one.

You are spot on with the laser thing. It's why I don't want to sell via the web. The race to the bottom is evident. I keep a careful eye on both material and time costs. We don't make a huge profit but we are ahead at the moment. As there is no one local doing what we do, we are sticking to local events. The reason for us to start is I am going to fully retire in September because of my health and this is something to keep me busy until I pass on.

 

[Robotstar5]

I've been visiting vintage shows about 10 years and noticed the sellers have changed over the years. Folks selling hand made stuff from a table at the back of a van or under a caravan awning have been replaced with big tents full of mass produced cheap tat

 

[My Old Landy]

I've been visiting vintage shows about 10 years and noticed the sellers have changed over the years. Folks selling hand made stuff from a table at the back of a van or under a caravan awning have been replaced with big tents full of mass produced cheap tat

The artisan market yesterday was a good example of that. Out of all the stalls around half were handmade things and the others were resale tat.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I've been visiting vintage shows about 10 years and noticed the sellers have changed over the years. Folks selling hand made stuff from a table at the back of a van or under a caravan awning have been replaced with big tents full of mass produced cheap tat

It is probably why the footfall has declined, although I couldn't believe the numbers who went to the NEC to look at the same tat from the same old trader.

 

[Robotstar5]

The artisan market yesterday was a good example of that. Out of all the stalls around half were handmade things and the others were resale tat.

Try canvassing local museums, when they have special event or open days some of them allow a handful of local craft sales/demos.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Nope. Your warranty rests with AO and only them for up to six years. They can suggest a different option but they cannot "transfer" their obligations to any other party. At one month old, I would be going for a full rejection under CRA 2015.

Have a good read of Consumer Rights Act 2015 and Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

They can insist that if I want to receive my warranty service I have to interact with the agents they have appointed to provide it...

No question of them not honouring the warranty, just that they chose to employ a frustratingly inept subbie to deal with it.

You're right that I could have stood on principle refused to deal with the subbie, and forced AO to directly deal with me over rejecting it, but I also just needed the damn thing to work, before I left for nearly a month.

I will be replacing the thing with a secondhand Miele as soon as a 45cm one comes up cheaply... Even working properly, it's pretty terrible.

 

[Morrisman]

Dunno. Its the first place I look when I want to buy anything. Tried scouring the net for various things, and I don't get why sellers don't or won't answer questions. Most are very difficult when anything goes wrong, so I don't bother mostly, and end up buying on eBay as its easy.

I don't sell anything on there though, because of the high fees, but mostly because they are so many dishonest buyers who claim something is wrong, and the system is biased in their favour.

I don't do Amazon because Its ridiculous that they will send a van out here for something like a USB lead.

I’ve tried buying from ‘normal’ web site businesses, and while I’d like to support them I’ve found materials and suchforth for garage projects are close to half the price off eBay.
Eg aluminium round bar, £11 from metal supermarket, + VAT, + £8 p&p.
From eBay, £12 with free delivery.
Same sized bar.

 

[Blobber]

I’ve tried buying from ‘normal’ web site businesses, and while I’d like to support them I’ve found materials and suchforth for garage projects are close to half the price off eBay.
Eg aluminium round bar, £11 from metal supermarket, + VAT, + £8 p&p.
From eBay, £12 with free delivery.
Same sized bar.

I have about 150 items for sale at any one time all on "buy it now" format, quite a few of the buyers I have dealt with in the past and if they ring me I always do the prices cheaper than Ebay prices but its amazing how many dont or wont ring

 

[Morrisman]

Dunno. Its the first place I look when I want to buy anything. Tried scouring the net for various things, and I don't get why sellers don't or won't answer questions. Most are very difficult when anything goes wrong, so I don't bother mostly, and end up buying on eBay as its easy.

I don't sell anything on there though, because of the high fees, but mostly because they are so many dishonest buyers who claim something is wrong, and the system is biased in their favour.

I don't do Amazon because Its ridiculous that they will send a van out here for something like a USB lead.

Last week, I needed a watch battery for a key fob. To save a drive into the town centre I used Amazon. £3.50

I assume the Prime van will have a route that winds its waste sensibly around the area, dropping off steadily, rather than a ten mile round trip just for moi, but you never know.

 

[ajlelectronics]

They can insist that if I want to receive my warranty service I have to interact with the agents they have appointed to provide it...

Definitely not, under the CRA. They can suggest it as a more efficient route but that is all.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Definitely not, under the CRA. They can suggest it as a more efficient route but that is all.

That's interesting, is they any case-law or Trading Standards Guidance which clarifies that?

At least to my reading section 31, subsection 2, sets out that the trader cannot contract out of their obligation to provide such remedies the customer has a right to in sections 19-24.

That doesn't prevent them from appointing some other entity to act as their agent (such as via a subcontract) to undertake the provision such a remedy.

The question really hinges on whether forcing the consumer to deal with a somewhat awkward subcontractor constitutes an unfair term.
Looking at schedule 2, there's two potential ways they could arguably fall foul of that:
• Under S2, Para. 17 - "A term which has the object or effect of limiting the trader's obligation to respect commitments undertaken by the trader's agents or making the trader's commitments subject to compliance with a particular formality."

• Under S2, Para. 19. - "A term which has the object or effect of allowing the trader to transfer the trader's rights and obligations under the contract, where this may reduce the guarantees for the consumer, without the consumer's agreement."

Emphasis mine.

 

[ajlelectronics]

That's interesting, is they any case-law or Trading Standards Guidance which clarifies that?

The CRA is there in black and white as you have found. The government site is a bit heavy going though!

At least to my reading section 31, subsection 2, sets out that the trader cannot contract out of their obligation to provide such remedies the customer has a right to in sections 19-24.

That is my point. The legal entity who sold it, formed a contract with the consumer which cannot be passed to another legal entity.

That doesn't prevent them from appointing some other entity to act as their agent (such as via a subcontract) to undertake the provision such a remedy.

There we differ. Appointing a sub contractor is an option for them but it doesn't remove their contractual obligations to the consumer. So for example; I buy a Acme tool from JoeBloggs which ceases to function correctly in a period of under a month. Until the month is up, JoeBloggs have to refund or replace the item on demand. From then until the end of a six month period, the fact that it has an inherent defect must be taken as highly probable unless the retailer can prove otherwise. After the first six months and for the next five years and six months, the consumer needs a report showing that it does indeed have an inherent defect. For the first 14 days I am entitled to return it for any reason I care to dream up if it was a distance sale.

During the statutory period, the retailer can offer various remedies. JoeBloggs can say "Look, we are not so well equipped to sort this and it would be far quicker to use Acme's own returns service". This does not absolve JoeBloggs of their statutory obligations which can be insisted upon by the consumer. Only one repair is permitted under the Act and if there is a further failure, a refund or replacement is then legally available. A reasonable deduction may be made for the amount of time and use that item has had or the retailer may choose to replace it with a refurbished device which is similar.

I have often done this myself, (rarely faulty) Weber carb's for instance when it seems daft to send it to me, for me to pass to Weber, for Weber to return it to me and then me to the customer. That having been said, the customer is entitled to insist on that.


All of the above from memory and with a thick head, so check the detail on the gov website for accuracy.

The question really hinges on whether forcing the consumer to deal with a somewhat awkward subcontractor constitutes an unfair term.
Looking at schedule 2, there's two potential ways they could arguably fall foul of that:
• Under S2, Para. 17 - "A term which has the object or effect of limiting the trader's obligation to respect commitments undertaken by the trader's agents or making the trader's commitments subject to compliance with a particular formality."

• Under S2, Para. 19. - "A term which has the object or effect of allowing the trader to transfer the trader's rights and obligations under the contract, where this may reduce the guarantees for the consumer, without the consumer's agreement."

Emphasis mine.

 

[Ubique]

Last week, I needed a watch battery for a key fob. To save a drive into the town centre I used Amazon. £3.50

I assume the Prime van will have a route that winds its waste sensibly around the area, dropping off steadily, rather than a ten mile round trip just for moi, but you never know.

View attachment 457879

The same as Royal Mail - the efficiencies of scale. essentially, if you're going past an address on your delivery route, dropping off at it (and many others) makes financial sense. If, one day, it has to make a detour to deliver to you, then that's a customer retained (which is where Amazon differ from RM, the customer to them is the sender) regardless of value of the commodity.

 

[Morrisman]

I have about 150 items for sale at any one time all on "buy it now" format, quite a few of the buyers I have dealt with in the past and if they ring me I always do the prices cheaper than Ebay prices but its amazing how many dont or wont ring

What sort of stuff do you sell?

 

[ukracer]

What they are saying is they have over a 1000 items listed and only selling 50 quid a week.

I have not found personal websites that good though. I started up www.cyberbuyer.co.uk mainly so I could put my own items there and have a convenient place to Copy to 15 local facebook pages. I advertised it to all those selling pages.....it's free for gods sake. Lol and yet I have very few people using it.....weird really.

It was up there until recently...still had no use...lol

 

[Smallfry]

Last week, I needed a watch battery for a key fob. To save a drive into the town centre I used Amazon. £3.50

I assume the Prime van will have a route that winds its waste sensibly around the area, dropping off steadily, rather than a ten mile round trip just for moi, but you never know.

View attachment 457879

This is exactly what I mean. Yes, its very handy, and saves you, and me, the customer time and money. But where we are, the driver has to come 8 to 10 miles out of their way if there is nothing else to drop off, and they are obliged to because its "Prime"

Its certainly not very environmentally friendly, or even sensible.

 

[addjunkie]

This is exactly what I mean. Yes, its very handy, and saves you, and me, the customer time and money. But where we are, the driver has to come 8 to 10 miles out of their way if there is nothing else to drop off, and they are obliged to because its "Prime"

Its certainly not very environmentally friendly, or even sensible.

Driver coming to you, or you heading into town to buy item will be about the same for the environment

 

[ukracer]

This is exactly what I mean. Yes, its very handy, and saves you, and me, the customer time and money. But where we are, the driver has to come 8 to 10 miles out of their way if there is nothing else to drop off, and they are obliged to because its "Prime"

Its certainly not very environmentally friendly, or even sensible.

So what's the alternative.