On torch extraction

[nickk]

Is anyone here using it,how successful,ease of setup? Thanks.

 

[hotponyshoes]

They work pretty well,
Easy to set up a basic system. It's basically just connect the extractor to the torch and turn it on.

Issues are the torches are bulky both on the hose, handle and front end.

They also suck up dust if you put them down which blocks up the filter quickly.

You get a bit of wind noise from the torch plus the noise of the extractor.
If you want a bit of comfort see if your welder has an interface connection you can use to switch the extractor on/off or make up an auto-switcher to reduce the noise and save the filter.

 

[Parm]

This goes against all my many years of working in human health protection

If your a production welder making widgets on a jig / bench set up then they just about work but there are better solutions like local exhaust ventilation

If however your a jobbing welder and take on many types of work then quite simply they are very limited and not worth the time, effort, trouble or money. As soon as you go out of position they are useless.

You’re better off spending money on a decent extraction set up. There will always be residual risk as extraction isn’t always effective as it’s usually not correctly positioned. The solution for this is a powered / filtering welding visor

It can be part of a solution (with limitations) but definitely isnt THE solution it’s made out to be

I never advise my clients to waste money on this

 

[Parm]

They work pretty well,
Easy to set up a basic system. It's basically just connect the extractor to the torch and turn it on.

Issues are the torches are bulky both on the hose, handle and front end.

They also suck up dust if you put them down which blocks up the filter quickly.

You get a bit of wind noise from the torch plus the noise of the extractor.
If you want a bit of comfort see if your welder has an interface connection you can use to switch the extractor on/off or make up an auto-switcher to reduce the noise and save the filter.

Interested to learn more about your positive experience of on torch extraction.

Your the only person I’ve heard say anything positive about this

Do you have on torch set up? If so what system?

 

[hotponyshoes]

Interested to learn more about your positive experience of on torch extraction.

Your the only person I’ve heard say anything positive about this

Do you have on torch set up? If so what system?

To be clear, I'm not using torch extraction as a form of ppe.
If I was getting someone to weld something I'd give them an air-fed mask.

My use for the torch extraction is mainly.for better visibility of the weld on dirty stuff and less cleanup of shiny stuff.
It also keeps the mask lens clean if you are sticking your head in a tight space.

I personally use a binzel torch to a bosch extractor.
A mate of mine uses kemper for his robotic welding. So, no actual need for it as ppe but it keeps the welding cells a lot cleaner as you are not sucking dirty fumes across the jigs & kit to get to the extraction point.

 

[roofman]

"Torch extraction" ??? looks like another day in the classroom on this one.

 

[Bornfree]

I've got a brand new binzel set up in the workshop. It's never been used I took one look at the torch size and thought that's never going to work .it's sat there 3 or 4 years unused.

 

[Robotstar5]

This goes against all my many years of working in human health protection

If your a production welder making widgets on a jig / bench set up then they just about work but there are better solutions like local exhaust ventilation

We trialled on torch extraction in one of the production welding booths and the operator found the torch/harness too bulky to get into some of the welds so we stuck with the LEV (these were the days before air fed masks)

 

[Parm]

To be clear, I'm not using torch extraction as a form of ppe.
If I was getting someone to weld something I'd give them an air-fed mask.

My use for the torch extraction is mainly.for better visibility of the weld on dirty stuff and less cleanup of shiny stuff.
It also keeps the mask lens clean if you are sticking your head in a tight space.

I personally use a binzel torch to a bosch extractor.
A mate of mine uses kemper for his robotic welding. So, no actual need for it as ppe but it keeps the welding cells a lot cleaner as you are not sucking dirty fumes across the jigs & kit to get to the extraction point.

I fully understand it’s not PPE, I’m interested in your experience of the system as an engineering control

 

[Parm]

We trialled on torch extraction in one of the production welding booths and the operator found the torch/harness too bulky to get into some of the welds so we stuck with the LEV (these were the days before air fed masks)

Sounds about right, I was involved with some extensive trials at one of the yellow machine manufacturers. Wasn’t very successful

 

[Bullet2012]

If the torch requires extracting i would suggest,
1) You have really , really annoyed the welder
2)seek medical assistance

 

[hotponyshoes]

I fully understand it’s not PPE, I’m interested in your experience of the system as an engineering control

From a welders point of view on removing the stuff that affects visibility or component contamination (not the stuff you can't see that may still kill you)...

Yes, they are bulky, heavier, and cumbersome to drag around.
It's extra parts that need cleaning & mantainance and increased running costs.
They are expensive. Although cheaper options may be available if you move away from the big brand names?
I've not seen any mig torches over 4/5 meter Tig comes upto 8m and is easy to extend if required.
Sheathing is fairly easy to damage (compared to std) and hard and expensive to replace.

For specific/repetitive jobs they require some setup/adjusment time to get the extraction working correctly in conjunction with the gas flow.
For general use, they just sort of work. although (due to the aboves) it's not something that would be my first choice of torch for general use

They obviously become useful when you are doing anything that creates a lot of fumes.
Ie, the last time I used one was welding a handbrake bracket onto the underside of a car.
The bracket was located at the top of the transmission tunnel directly above the exhaust box. Area had paint and seam sealer so a normal torch would have just filled the area with black smoke.
So, I could have removed the exhaust and cleaned the area first and used a normal torch. But I'd still have some smoke trying to rise into the gap and probably have to wait to see what I was doing between welding each side.
Or, use the fume torch which ment I could wear the weldcap and fit my head in around the exhaust pipe and do all the welds with no waiting.
To be honest, if the machine wasn't already set up and there, I'd have used a normal torch for that job though.

They are also good for jobs in enclosed spaces. Say you are welding inside an open top box or a U channel/rsj,
If the box is painted or galvanised you'll have zero vision pretty quickly with a normal torch. External extraction won't suck from the bottom of a box as the only incoming 'air' pressure is from the shielding gas.
Even if you set up an in-feed with external extraction the fumes would be going all across the torch, your gloves and even your mask lense if the extractor is above or slightly behind you.
Plus the fumes can deposit on the workpiece requiring extra cleanup work.
On-torch is the perfect application for this sort of job.
Sure, you could clean off the galv/paint first but you'll still get some fumes from the splatter hitting the surrounding areas.
Again, you could spend some time on weld parameters and produce splatter-free welds but that's only worth doing for repetitive identical jobs.
Torch extraction is good for the one-off stuff and can save quite a bit of time in certain circumstances.

The reason I had the welder set up for steel for the handbrake was the previous job was welding up a crack across the roof of the fire chamber on a biomass burner. The only access was through the door which I could just about fit my shoulders through.
Boiler was still warm so all the smoke was rising to right were I needed to weld.
With me wedged in the door there would not have been any room to stick an extraction arm in as well.
I could probably have dragged in a length of hover size hose for extraction but I'd have had to come up with some way of holding it up against the roof and probably repositioned it several times during the run.
As it was a case of putting the torch through the door, then both arms, then squeaxing the rest of myself in, I'd have struggled to adjust that hose and it probably would have got in my way at some point as well.



What you can't see in those photos is the bottom of that box is about a foot deep in ash and carbon dust. If there was space to put an extraction arm above my head all that dust in the bottom would have been getting sucked across my face.
Again, I could have turned the extractor down or fully cleaned out the burner box before starting the job but the fume torch has about the right amount of suck to just remove the fumes the weld is creating without drawing other dust around plus this was on-site so ment all the kit fitted into the back seat of my truck rather than having to load the extraction arm into the van and try getting that up a farmers track...

 

[Parm]

From a welders point of view on removing the stuff that affects visibility or component contamination (not the stuff you can't see that may still kill you)...

Yes, they are bulky, heavier, and cumbersome to drag around.
It's extra parts that need cleaning & mantainance and increased running costs.
They are expensive. Although cheaper options may be available if you move away from the big brand names?
I've not seen any mig torches over 4/5 meter Tig comes upto 8m and is easy to extend if required.
Sheathing is fairly easy to damage (compared to std) and hard and expensive to replace.

For specific/repetitive jobs they require some setup/adjusment time to get the extraction working correctly in conjunction with the gas flow.
For general use, they just sort of work. although (due to the aboves) it's not something that would be my first choice of torch for general use

They obviously become useful when you are doing anything that creates a lot of fumes.
Ie, the last time I used one was welding a handbrake bracket onto the underside of a car.
The bracket was located at the top of the transmission tunnel directly above the exhaust box. Area had paint and seam sealer so a normal torch would have just filled the area with black smoke.
So, I could have removed the exhaust and cleaned the area first and used a normal torch. But I'd still have some smoke trying to rise into the gap and probably have to wait to see what I was doing between welding each side.
Or, use the fume torch which ment I could wear the weldcap and fit my head in around the exhaust pipe and do all the welds with no waiting.
To be honest, if the machine wasn't already set up and there, I'd have used a normal torch for that job though.

They are also good for jobs in enclosed spaces. Say you are welding inside an open top box or a U channel/rsj,
If the box is painted or galvanised you'll have zero vision pretty quickly with a normal torch. External extraction won't suck from the bottom of a box as the only incoming 'air' pressure is from the shielding gas.
Even if you set up an in-feed with external extraction the fumes would be going all across the torch, your gloves and even your mask lense if the extractor is above or slightly behind you.
Plus the fumes can deposit on the workpiece requiring extra cleanup work.
On-torch is the perfect application for this sort of job.
Sure, you could clean off the galv/paint first but you'll still get some fumes from the splatter hitting the surrounding areas.
Again, you could spend some time on weld parameters and produce splatter-free welds but that's only worth doing for repetitive identical jobs.
Torch extraction is good for the one-off stuff and can save quite a bit of time in certain circumstances.

The reason I had the welder set up for steel for the handbrake was the previous job was welding up a crack across the roof of the fire chamber on a biomass burner. The only access was through the door which I could just about fit my shoulders through.
Boiler was still warm so all the smoke was rising to right were I needed to weld.
With me wedged in the door there would not have been any room to stick an extraction arm in as well.
I could probably have dragged in a length of hover size hose for extraction but I'd have had to come up with some way of holding it up against the roof and probably repositioned it several times during the run.
As it was a case of putting the torch through the door, then both arms, then squeaxing the rest of myself in, I'd have struggled to adjust that hose and it probably would have got in my way at some point as well.

View attachment 529601View attachment 529602

What you can't see in those photos is the bottom of that box is about a foot deep in ash and carbon dust. If there was space to put an extraction arm above my head all that dust in the bottom would have been getting sucked across my face.
Again, I could have turned the extractor down or fully cleaned out the burner box before starting the job but the fume torch has about the right amount of suck to just remove the fumes the weld is creating without drawing other dust around plus this was on-site so ment all the kit fitted into the back seat of my truck rather than having to load the extraction arm into the van and try getting that up a farmers track...

Thanks, this is quite interesting and certainly not the application I’ve seen.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Thanks, this is quite interesting and certainly not the application I’ve seen.

On a more industrial scale,
I have a couple of mates that run factories.
One is a big (400+ staff) place They have about 20 manual welding bays for regular production work. Only 3 or 4 of those stations have extraction torches fitted but they suit the job they are doing very well. That's jobs like welding a nut to the inside base of a box so basically 3 short runs/big tacks. Without torch extraction you'd spend longer waiting for the smoke to clear than the time to do the welding.

They also have a large number of robotic welding units. Obviously there is no risk to workers from fumes there but a large number of those are fitted with torch extraction. One advantage is that you don't have to re-jig the extractor every time you swap the weld jig around for a different production run.
You also get a lot less crud settling over the robotic equipment which saves on mantainance and less crud traveling through the air which helps with the cctv that watches the robots to make sure they are still working properly...
Most of the stuff robot welded is galvanised though so they benefit from the torch extraction more than other places might.

The other place is making higher quality products in lower numbers.
They have a dozen or so core products that run through a manual production line at the rate of about 8-10 a day. The welding stations there are all traditional ones.
But, they have a big options list for customers to choose from and customise.
If the customer chooses any of these options the item gets pulled off the line at an appropriate stage in the build. Welded by a different set of guys using torch extraction, then, either returned to the line or finished completely by the off-line guy(s).
These items start as small flat sections that one guy can pluck off the line and stick on a workbench then those sections gradually get joined together to form something that needs a forklift to move and is 7' tall and needs to be welded on the floor.
Depending on the workload and what's going on this 'custom' welding could need to be done anywhere so torch extraction is just the simple way to provide extraction where it's required. They have 8-10 welders for the off-line guys and half of them have the extraction on torch.
They also do quite a few modifications to stock products that are already completed, ie painted or in powder coat and with stickers already applied etc. The extraction torches are good for doing stuff like adding an extra bracket for a customer without the product smelling of burning paint when its delivered!