Newbie with power supply problem/question & rusty E21

[e21resto]

Hi everyone, new here, soon to buy a mig welder, looking at clarke160en or similar 150amp machine. Will probably buy from weldequiped once I have my first problem sorted...

With the help of this site I am going to learn to mig weld so that I can at least attempt to rescue/restore my rusty but well loved e21 (black 1981 323i). I will post more pictures when the project picks up more pace.

Now, the project has hit a major obstacle before I can even begin. I am lucky to have my dads double garage to use, but it only has a 13amp supply and it is 15 yards down the garden, 20 yards from the "mains box" or consumer supply, the box where the big fuses are anyway!

I want to get a 3hp compressor and obviously I will need at least a 20amp supply for the mig.

How much work in terms of labour, equipment cost and if needed, professional labour is needed to get the supply I need?

My dad is quite capable when it comes to household electrics but 99% of the labour will need to be done by me if possible.

Can anyone point me in the right direction or share similar experiences?

Anyone know how much a "sparky" might charge to do this as a rough guide price? Obviously I would dig the trench to run the cable (Dad claims to have used only 13amp cable).

I know an electrician who might be wiling to work cash in hand as a favour...

Please help, the resto needs to begin and without proper 20amp power, well, I'm a bit stuck.

http://a671.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/16/l_55208c1943ffba4937ef0a8fb2b7eede.jpg

And if the geezer from redeemer beemer sees this and wants to let me know what sort of tasty e21 stock he has in much appreciated
tom

 

[dcocks]

Hi Resto
A 150 amp mig will work on 13amp on car stuff you do not need 20amp. I work my Portamig 181 flat out on 16amp
You can get a 3hp compressor that will work of 13amp as well look here http://www.aircompressors.co.uk/sealey/workshop.php
Cheers David

 

[e21resto]

hi dcocks, thanks for your quick reply, the reason I thought otherwise was this description of the clarke 151:

Clarke 151TE Mig Welder
Great quality Home Mig Welder. Ideal for the all round home workshop. Supplied with everything, Wire, Gas, Hand Shield etc. Features 30-150amps output (Welds up to 6mm steel), Turbo Fan Cooling for longer operation, Side Hinged Door access to wire feed system, good quality torch and wheels for easy movement. Accepts both 0.6mm and 0.8mm mig welding wire. Will require a 20amp supply to operate at full power with 0.8mm Mig welding wire.

£229.00 (£194.89 excluding VAT)
FREE Welders Gauntlets
UK Mainland P+P is £4.95 inc VAT per order

Is this right:

13amps will suffice for 99% of car body work but if I want to push the limits of the 150amp mig with heavy duty thick welds requiring 0.8mm wire it will "trip the breaker" (is that what happens?) or blow the 13 amp fuse?

What is the worst case scenario?

Sorry for being ignorant, I just want to be safe, not destroy the cable to my dad's garage and I dont want to find out last minute once I have the equipment that its a month long project to get sufficient power to the garage.

Off topic, the Clarke model seems well specced and cheap? weldequiped can you compete with that price mate? Or better price with a comparable model? I'm on a tight budget, really I'm after an autotint screen, some "gloves" and 150amps of gas mig power for around £250, is this do-able with current prices?

Thanks

Much destruction today, much rust revealed, will post pics in the project section soon to show how much welding I have ahead of me!

 

[dcocks]

Hi
Sure you will find guys on here who are using a 150amp welder flat out on a 13amp plug
David

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

the fuse makes it safe, so it won't destroy the cabling...

The cable rated at 13 amps will have a 'factor of safety' and will handle at least twice that power for short durations...

though it's bad practice to do this!

For small electrical jobs such as one fuse (or trip), out on one cable to one socket, then you can do it yourself. If you're not sure, ring your local council planning officer who will advise you.

As an aside, I knocked out a wall in the house that involved moving a couple of sockets and light switches. The plans showed this and I was told I wouldn't need an electrician unless it was a major re-wire.

You could either add a second 2.5mm twin and earth and double them up...
or use the second cable to install a ring main and add some more sockets in the workshop...
or disconnect the 2.5 and install a bigger cable, either a 4mm or 6mm twin & earth.

If you opted for the last choice then you could install a remote fusebox with a 32 amp trip and then smaller trips to sockets and lights in the workshop. If you know an electrician, ask if you can run the cables, etc, and lec him eith check out your connections or do the connections for you.

You'd have to be especially useless to get a few sockets wrong!

Regards
Peter

 

[MarkMG]

I've put a 6mm twin in to my garage, 20 odd metre run, its own fuse box.

I can switch off everything on one throw of the switch.

I also set it up with a proper 16amp socket, blue jobbie, plus a ring for normal sockets on 16amp and a small ring just for chargers, means I can switch all off except chargers, I sleep easier at night know all those dodgy chinese switches are not live and waiting to set light to everything!!!

Cost about £100 or so, wired it myself, it is all coloured coded.......

 

[e21resto]

ok, thanks for your input everyone, this is all good news.

I will give it a try with the 13amp supply and if I get tired of replacing fuses (or manage to persuade my dad to "back" the project or just take pity on me) then we will go for a proper rewire with a more sufficient power supply and decently placed sockets etc.

Having revealed the rear shock towers today, I think this project is gonna be 10 x over budget and take 10 x as long anyone want to tell me its not as bad as it looks?

At least my cat is helping me with the brake servo

http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010349fs4.jpg

[img=http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4900/p1010346cs8.th.jpg]


Pics went wrong a bit there ooops.

Gonna need to buy a welder asap! first welding project will be make a rotisserie. Am I going about this right?

 

[drjim]

Marvellous, another E21 owner/restorer!

I have two E21's both 316's, and an E24 635csi ...

http://www.oldbimmer.myzen.co.uk/e21/oddsnsods/pictures/IMGP0411.JPG

The blue E21 is in need of a tiny bit of paint/rust removal, the green one needs a bit of welding engine rebuild roll cage and some bucket seats before trackday season starts again. E24 - long story but it does work!

Are you a www.bmwe21.net forum member??? If not get down there!

Jim

PS if that's the rear arch under the back seats it's not as bad as it looks!

 

[drjim]

This is my rear left arch after I ground out the rust and got a patch welded on - before I bought the welder off him! Took about 1/2 hour and is now basically sorted, although I really should get some primer on the ground off bits.

The stuff inside the boot looks superficial, don't panic!

Where are you located??

Jim

 

[e21resto]

hi drjim

Hope your multiple projects are going well, I like E24s and could easily have got one instead of the E21.

I have a few posts at e21.net as sharknose81.

That is the very same arch under the seats, got rust at both sides there... horsehair dust up my nose too from the seats!

Soon will be stripped to the shell and replacement panels will be bought from W&Nesch for any rusty areas that cannot be properly fixed...revealing the panels to see if they are rotten or not is exciting in a way, when most of the individual panels are around 200 Euros per side, it wont take much rust in the key areas before my budget is all gone just on panels.

Got to run to the pub, here are a couple more pics, how the hell do you get this bolt off? spanner wont fit, barely room for the socket if atall?



Had to vacuum all that horse hair dust, dust mask on until that was done.



The "outer inner" wing has rust on both sides, if its too far gone that will be 60euros a side on top of 250 euros a side for full rear quarter panels. If the "inner inner" wing is bad, the panel is 208 Euros a side!!!



Lastly, the seat belt bolts, took a long long time and wore me and me tiny little spanner out to remove them, need a drink after wrenching these two bolts!



I think the car is worth the effort, have had it a few years now, tucked in the garage most of the time (2nd car). The running gear etc. is all fine, except a rubber joint or seal here and there. Estimate around 99,000 miles based on the most recent history I have and the mileage on the spare dash that it came with.

I am in York.

 

[e21resto]

messed up the pictures again :P

 

[drjim]

I think you need to pull the belt out fully to get at the bolt.

York isn't too far from Manchester, and I have friends there, so maybe we will meet eventually!

Jim

 

[Robotstar5]

You could either add a second 2.5mm twin and earth and double them up...

PLEASE don't try this option, I once saw something similar supplying a shower. One core broke and the remaining one melted due to the current overload, luckily the fuse blew before a fire started!

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

it's the same as a ring main with just a couple of sockets...

it'd be fused at 30A and if one cable went dead then the other would take the full load.

Regards
Peter

 

[Robotstar5]

Hi Peter,
I must have read it wrong. The installation I was on about was feeding a 6kW shower off a 40A fuse, the theory must have been 2 x 2.5mm = 5mm cable!, when one core broke the remaining one overheated under load.
Regards, Stuart.