Newbie with a tungsten problem

[speedy8281]

Hey guys, I bought a r-tech TIG180PDC a couple of weeks ago for some welding I have to do on a car. I've done a bit of MIG welding before but never TIG, I thought the TIG would be easy to use on the lighter stuff and leave a nicer looking weld as I'm going to be seam welding the car and the welds will be seen. I've been playing around with scraps from an old car door (1mm? mild steel). My problem is my Tungstens keep burning up. I'm welding at around 30-50 amps with argon gas set to abt 10lpm and a No.6 ceramic cup, I've tried both 1.6mm and 1mm Tungstens, red tipped ones. Have also tried sharpening them to a sharp point and with a very small flat on the end. But both are balling up. I can get a decent enough weld when tips are fresh but after a short time the Tungsten balls up and the arc bounces around. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[voipio]

Could be a polarity thing. The welding electrode should be negative with respect to the workpiece i.e. DCEN (Direct Current Electrode Negative), often referred to in the US as DCSP (Direct Current Straight Polarity).

Voi

 

[speedy8281]

Thats the way it is mate, I tried changing them around but then the Tungsten was burning as soon as it arced.

 

[voipio]

Is it possible a.c. is switched on? The electrode will tend to ball up when welding aluminium using a.c.

OK, checked the TIG160PDC and TIG200PDC manuals and these machines don't do a.c.

 

[malcolm]

I normally get balled tungstens by accidentally dipping the tungsten into the weld pool. Instant round tip. I'm also OK at MIG but new to TIG.

 

[pedrobedro]

I think the 180PDC is a DC only machine isn't it ? Can you put a picture of your front panel up for a look at your settings ? How far is your tungsten out of the ceramic ?

 

[speedy8281]

i don't think I'm touching the weld pool, maybe i am.

Yeah, it's DC only, yeah I can get a pic later, going out to the garage now to play around a bit more.

Tungsten is out about 1/4 inch.

 

[hotrodder]

[cynical] The argon is PURE argon right? Not a something that turns out to be a argon/CO2 mix like argoshield [/cynical]
(sorry seems like there's been eleventy billion threads with people trying to TIG weld with either the wrong gas or no gas recently)

There are 3 options for burnt/manky/balled tungstens (excluding AC as your set is DC only)

Wrong polarity, already covered
Dunking the tungsten into the weld pool or sticking the filler wire into the arc/tungsten. Typically results in lumps of filler/weld metal stuck to the tungsten
A gas containing CO2, O2 and/or nitrogen which'll immediately oxidise the tungsten causing spitting, arc wander, a blackened burnt tungsten and basically make welding impossible

 

[Nevesy]

Does my thread make it eleventy billion and 1?

Sounds like the problem I had, I was sold Argon that was actually CO2, how sure are you it's Argon?

 

[speedy8281]

Yes it's pure Argon, I got it from BOC. Just after having another wee go there. I changed the ceramic cup to a No.5, lowered gas to about 8lpm and brought the amps down to about 30. The Tungsten didn't ball up on me tonight, but was just losing it's point. I think maybe I'm putting filler rod into the arc, would that be my problem even if the filler rod isn't actually touching the Tungsten? I was getting bits of filler/weld in the ceramic cup and on the Tungsten. Took some pictures but I can't find my camera lead now. Typical.

 

[wyn]

What i find sometimes, if the tungsten is very close to the weld and you add the filler rod the weld pool increases in size, just behind the arc where you can't see it......and before you know it, it's all over the tungsten.

 

[hotrodder]

Does my thread make it eleventy billion and 1?

It's easily done when you're new to welding, just thought i'd hammer the point home early this time. One thread got to 3 pages before it turned out the gas had run out

Speedy, touching the filler to the arc can be enough to contaminate the tungsten. The arc is several thousand degrees, enough to vaporise the end of the filler (especially when welding ali). If there's traces of metal spatter in the ceramic that's a giveaway and almost certain that some will be stuck to the tungsten too. Wyn's suggestion another likely scenario

When something like that happens you tend to get some 'brownish soot' surrounding the weld at the point it happened (often a brief flash and a change of arc colour too). Similar soot from the wrong gas etc but much more of it

 

[speedy8281]

found the camera lead
The Tungsten really balled up was using a No.6 cup and about 10lpm gas, the rest were from just tonight using the No5 cup and about 8lpm gas and less amps aswell. Have included a pic of my attempts

 

[Paul.]

I would say you are touching down, the large blob is a ball of parent material or filler from the pool, the beads look reasonably clean for mild steel, If your working indoors away from draughts, 6 lpm should be ok for gas flow, I often use less even on stainless. a bigger cup may help, try a 7 with about 6 to 8mm stick out for welding on flat plate and laps, and a bit more for tee fillet welds

 

[Shox Dr]

Top one is the rod touching the Tungsten, the rest look like touchdowns

 

[Bsmith]

I'm a newby too, hav'nt got back to trying tig again so far. Don't know if my post will help you any, but there is some good advice there.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16884&page=2

 

[backpurge]

Youre definately picking up weld metal on your tungsten, just a thought, you said you were using the TIG on car body panels, would have thought MAG was a better option to to heat input, contamination etc

 

[gerry3]

Hi Seedy8281,

I have a r-tech welder and it is one of the best.
from your photo I see that the settings are about right except that you need to set the pre and post flow of the gas settings, the post flow being the most important one, set this to about 5 seconds.
Set the amps to about 20-30( on the digital read out) if using 1.6 tungsten electrode.( start at 20 and work up)
Rest your hand on the bench and slide it along the work, just like you would with a pen. (you need to have thin tig welders gloves on).
Torch should progress from left to right at a constant speed and feed the wire along the plate into the front of the weld pool with a back and forth motion.The heat from the arc should melt the rod end and the capillary action takes the molten metal to the back of the weld pool.
Most people try to weld too fast when first trying but with practice you will soon develop the eye and hand coordination that tig welding needs.
The main thing to remember is that no book will teach you how to weld it's a practical process and practice is what you need.

Hope that this is of some help

 

[weldingscotty803]

Hi Seedy8281,

I have a r-tech welder and it is one of the best.
from your photo I see that the settings are about right except that you need to set the pre and post flow of the gas settings, the post flow being the most important one, set this to about 5 seconds.
Set the amps to about 20-30( on the digital read out) if using 1.6 tungsten electrode.( start at 20 and work up)
Rest your hand on the bench and slide it along the work, just like you would with a pen. (you need to have thin tig welders gloves on).
Torch should progress from left to right at a constant speed and feed the wire along the plate into the front of the weld pool with a back and forth motion.The heat from the arc should melt the rod end and the capillary action takes the molten metal to the back of the weld pool.
Most people try to weld too fast when first trying but with practice you will soon develop the eye and hand coordination that tig welding needs.
The main thing to remember is that no book will teach you how to weld it's a practical process and practice is what you need.

Hope that this is of some help

are you keggy handed?
i normally go right to left, towards myself. torch in right hand rod in left. is that why i am sh1t at tigging lol

 

[asmeix6g]

weldingscotty your right, move the torch right to left with filler in your left hand.
If it was me starting out again on TIG id be starting with thicker material aswel try some 3mm you dont need to move as fast and worry bout the weld 'falling through'