Newbie in need of advice???

[Oldbanger]

Hello everyone, it seems that every search I do on welding turns up a link to this forum.....
Im a total novice when it comes to welding, recently I got a lidl welder.... wish I had read a bit on here before I did
Its no good for my use and has already managed to break.
This leads me to my next question - does anyone have an opinion on the wolf 135 amp gas/gasless MIG welder. Im really only going to be using it for car body repairs ???? Nothing too thick. Cheers

 

[s410man]

Hello everyone, it seems that every search I do on welding turns up a link to this forum.....
Im a total novice when it comes to welding, recently I got a lidl welder.... wish I had read a bit on here before I did
Its no good for my use and has already managed to break.
This leads me to my next question - does anyone have an opinion on the wolf 135 amp gas/gasless MIG welder. Im really only going to be using it for car body repairs ???? Nothing too thick. Cheers

from my limited experience with wlf welders i dont think they will be much better than a lidl one

you would be better off with a sh clarke if thats youre budget but a new clarke is better if you can stretch to it as you then have the warranty etc

 

[Oldbanger]

the lidl one was an arc welder.... this is MIG
heres a link : Wolf 135 Amp Gas
I could get a clarke145 turbo gas/gasless for roughly the same price - just without gas and wire etc. would it be a better buy??? cheers again.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I had the wolf, I sold it after a month, was not an easy machine to set up...go for the Clarke, much better machine

 

[Oldbanger]

Thanks for your response...
The equivelant clarke machine seems to have less of a range in amperage, with a minimum of 35.... would I be blowing holes in 0.6mm cold roll steel?

 

[cumbriasteve]

Have checked, the 145 is gasless only, not ideal, you are limiting yourself too much and 35 amps with gasless wire will not be the easiest to get away with.

 

[Oldbanger]

Have checked, the 145 is gasless only, not ideal, you are limiting yourself too much and 35 amps with gasless wire will not be the easiest to get away with.

.......... with a budget of roughly £200 what would you recommend.
It will mainly be used for body repairs , perhaps the odd cross member.
Ive also had a look at the 135 TE turbo... its a bit more pricy and gas only I think. has a mild steel capacity of 4-5 mm and min amperage of 30
Also got a chance to buy a 2nd hand clarke 100 en turbo??
sorry to be a pain bud....

 

[troppo]

Your not being a pain mate, the only stupid question is the one you dont ask (though a search of the site first might save you a lot of time). One way to prevent blowing holes is to put a brass or copper block or plate behind your weld (not always possible). Try going with .6 wire for finer steels though a lot of welders will tell you that .8 is fine, each to their own. As for buying a welder, plenty of research and lots of questions and keep saving while your doing your research.

 

[Oldbanger]

Your not being a pain mate, the only stupid question is the one you dont ask (though a search of the site first might save you a lot of time). One way to prevent blowing holes is to put a brass or copper block or plate behind your weld (not always possible). Try going with .6 wire for finer steels though a lot of welders will tell you that .8 is fine, each to their own. As for buying a welder, plenty of research and lots of questions and keep saving while your doing your research.

Thanks mate, friendly place this is...... Think Ill be sticking around
Your probably right - that Im going to have to spend a bit more to get a machine up to the job....
Found a really good video on you tube .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzBGZaS1apw Been watching loads of stuff like this . If anything good came from that lidl welder - it was that I learned ..... weldings not something you can rush into

 

[cumbriasteve]

The top amps is not important if you only plan to weld car bodywork, as you realise the lower settings are more critical.

I think EN denotes Clarkes are gas/gasless, so if the 2nd hand one is in good condition and you can see it working then it could be a good buy, a sevice kit is readily available and not expensive.

I think many people hope to set up and get welding cheaply, I did myself and ended up going through a SIP and Wolf before realising I had to bite the bullet and spend some money.

A cheap welding set can be made to work but there comes a point where you want to raise the standard of your welds beyond what the machine will allow.

A bit of crystal ball work is needed, do you think you will enjoy the welding and want to start doing other things, if so what would they be and what demands will they place on the machine.

I think it comes to the fact that unless you want to spend Portamig money then buy the best Clarke you can.

Check locally for a gas supplier, it's not as expensive as it used to be and the welding is a lot easier and cleaner, it would also widen your options if you eliminated the gasless requirement.

 

[the snooper]

dont bother with the wolf what ever you do they went out of business so parts will be non existant

 

[keith19]

The Clarke 100 EN s/h should be a good starter machine, and worth buying. It will be okay for bodywork, and will go up to around 3 mm with a bit of edge preparation. You won't find much thicker metal than this on most vehicles.
Try to have someone check it works okay before buying, though. All the spares you'll need now and then are readily available, and a number of folks on here have one and can give further advice.

 

[Oldbanger]

......Some food for thought there.......
I think I would enjoy welding... did a bit in college (on a day where I actually did attend) and enjoyed it immensely.
Ive also got a burning desire to build my own track car so a stronger welder may be of use in the future???? roll cages etc... Was down at my local Machine Mart earlier - really liking the look of the clarke 160TM turbo - having said that I didnt see much difference between it and the 151TE turbo.... other than the fact it was a bit more robust and had a better trolley.
Definately going to take my time choosing , I buy and sell cars and on the last 2 honda civics alone Ive payed roughly £200 in welding - so a decent welder would be a good investment.

 

[octo0072000]

blowing holes

Thanks for your response...
The equivelant clarke machine seems to have less of a range in amperage, with a minimum of 35.... would I be blowing holes in 0.6mm cold roll steel?

what ever welder you get you need 25amps on the low end and no matter what until you get some experience you will be blowing holes in 0.6 mm steel
only way is thin metal
best MIG set for the thin metal is the portamig 185 this goes down to 15 amps but not cheap

see link

http://www.weldequip.com/portamig-mig-welders.htm

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/thin-metal.htm
this from machine mart is about the lowest amps at the cheaper end of the market goes down to 25amps
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/pro-90-mig-welder

see tutorials at the top of the main page click on the green bits says mig

it's like any thing you pays your money and takes your choice but for 0.6 mm steel you need low amps and and a gas mig with argoshield not co2 the portomig is tops in that dept but not cheap

but at the end of the day it's practice you will find you need to practice lots have plenty of patience then after practicing on the bench and getting it right then go to the car and start again whole new ball game on the car rusty metal thin in places a lot harder than on a nice clean bench you get the idea all good fun just keep trying
and as for money wise it will cost more than you think after you buy all the bits and a good auto darking helmet is the main bit to help you along

 

[keith19]

As Octo says, the Portamig would be the best for long-term investment.

But don't forget that if you're doing cars up regularly, the time actually spent welding is only a small part of it. It's all the prep work, cutting out, making panels or patches, fitting up, (then welding), grinding off, cleaning up, filling if required, sanding down, priming, painting, buffing, etc. that takes the time.

If you can do this on a hobby basis, it can be satisfying work, but the welding is only a part of it. So if you are buying a class welder like a Portamig you have to look at it as a long-term investment, and cost it out over maybe ten years.

A smaller and/or s/h welder to start off with is much less initial investment, and should you take to welding cars as a profitable hobby and like it, the profits on your first year of work would buy you a Portamig, and by then you would know for sure that you really liked welding.

Incidentally you don't really need a welder that goes down to 15 Amps or even 25 Amps to do car bodywork. It just makes learning a great deal easier, and so quicker. 30 Amps min will do fine, and is what most of us manage on. Some of us even use flux-cored on bodywork, just takes much more practice, is all.

Way back, I used a small pro welder that only went down to 35 Amps minimum, on car bodywork, on an almost daily basis. It was all we had, so we got used to it, and got results. But it wasn't too much fun...

 

[gavuk]

Incidentally you don't really need a welder that goes down to 15 Amps or even 25 Amps to do car bodywork. It just makes learning a great deal easier, and so quicker. 30 Amps min will do fine, and is what most of us manage on. Some of us even use flux-cored on bodywork, just takes much more practice, is all.
.

I'm with Keith,the lowest settings on a portamig are for mig brazing ,most of us use welders that don't go below 30amps ,I have used 0.8mm wire and co2 for car welding for years....
Portamigs are without doubt excellent welders and sold through the forum by Steve (weldquip) a reputable dealer who I have no hesitation in recommending ,but they are by no means the only welders capable of welding cars,there are many very capable sets ....
If you have recently spent £200 on car welding ,could you go and have a play on his welder ?....i wonder which welder he used?

 

[octo0072000]

As Octo says, the Portamig would be the best for long-term investment.

But don't forget that if you're doing cars up regularly, the time actually spent welding is only a small part of it. It's all the prep work, cutting out, making panels or patches, fitting up, (then welding), grinding off, cleaning up, filling if required, sanding down, priming, painting, buffing, etc. that takes the time.

If you can do this on a hobby basis, it can be satisfying work, but the welding is only a part of it. So if you are buying a class welder like a Portamig you have to look at it as a long-term investment, and cost it out over maybe ten years.

A smaller and/or s/h welder to start off with is much less initial investment, and should you take to welding cars as a profitable hobby and like it, the profits on your first year of work would buy you a Portamig, and by then you would know for sure that you really liked welding.

Incidentally you don't really need a welder that goes down to 15 Amps or even 25 Amps to do car bodywork. It just makes learning a great deal easier, and so quicker. 30 Amps min will do fine, and is what most of us manage on. Some of us even use flux-cored on bodywork, just takes much more practice, is all.

Way back, I used a small pro welder that only went down to 35 Amps minimum, on car bodywork, on an almost daily basis. It was all we had, so we got used to it, and got results. But it wasn't too much fun...

the OP say he will be working on 0.6mm metal this is very thin i.e Citroen 2cv kind of thing hence the portomig or the little Clark that goes to 25 amps welding thin metal on old car you need all the help you can get
normal car body work is more like 0.7 0.8 mm on panel land rover discovery body is about 1.0mm on inner wings to 1.2mm on rear cross member so 0.6 is pretty thin

 

[keith19]

If money were no object, I'd agree fully about getting a Portamig.
But if you've never done welding apart from one day in college, splashing out on a Portamig is a bit of pushing the boat out financially.
Once you've done a decent amount of welding practice with a reasonably usable welder, (not necessarily on 0.6 mm, it may be disheartening) you should know if you're going to like it or not, and can take your decision on a welder accordingly.

The Portamig has only two big disadvantages from my personal point of view.
It can't use flux-cored wire, and it isn't really portable. Apart from that, I would say it's an excellent long-term investment for anyone doing home welding, and a good medium-term investment for a small body-shop.

I recall the OP said he repaired Honda, not Citroen? I think Honda are nearer 0.8 than 0.6 mm, except perhaps on the newest ones. I've never had any problems patching a Civic, using 0.6 mm wire and argon/co2 mix.
"I buy and sell cars and on the last 2 honda civics alone Ive payed roughly £200 in welding - so a decent welder would be a good investment."

I'm willing to bet there are quite a number of people on here who have repaired Honda - and Citroen - without using a Portamig. Certainly a Portamig would make the experience easier, but it's not essential. The best cheap choice for thin bodywork would be a Clarke 90EN, already been said, I think. That goes down to 24 Amps, and will also do flux-cored if you have to weld slightly thicker stuff outside. But don't expect it to do more than about 2 - 2.5 mm, see here.

Better to either do a short welding course, or find someone to practice welding with, just to check you like it first, before investing more than half a grand on what is a professional-class machine.
Or just buy a small decent hobby machine like the 90EN and learn at your own pace.

 

[Oldbanger]

I'm with Keith,the lowest settings on a portamig are for mig brazing ,most of us use welders that don't go below 30amps ,I have used 0.8mm wire and co2 for car welding for years....
Portamigs are without doubt excellent welders and sold through the forum by Steve (weldquip) a reputable dealer who I have no hesitation in recommending ,but they are by no means the only welders capable of welding cars,there are many very capable sets ....
If you have recently spent £200 on car welding ,could you go and have a play on his welder ?....i wonder which welder he used?

Unfortunately he's not the friendliest of guys.... and didnt blow me away with his workmanship - another reason I wanted to do the work myself.
I do a lot of car body work so know what Im doing when it comes to filling and painting - Ive even tinkered with light metal work ( bending / panel forming) , just need to be able to stick them to the car now!!
It seems as if my use of 0.6mm steel is the main cause for concern.... should I go up to maybe 0.8mm - maybe closer in thickness to the original metal??? Also does anyone have any opinions on the clarke 160tm turbo?
Is it THAT much less of a machine compared with the portamig.
cheers folks

 

[octo0072000]

welder

at the end of the day it's up to you the 160tm is OK i suggested the 90 pro
because it will go down to 25 amps but only goes up to 90 amps
better for car body work also very portable and can use the larger argon cylinders but not good for anything heavier above 3mm/4mm
see here
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/pro-90-mig-welder?da=1&TC=RV-010114040

if money was no object then portomig has more variable settings

i have used a portomig and like the ease of use but it's not cheap
the best thing to do is find a local welding suppler near you and ask to test out some migs try it on some thin metal get them to weld some thin metal for you at the end of the day it's what you like best