New welder, new gas bottle, feel like I'm just starting to learn (+images)!

[tombardier]

Hi guys,

I feel like I'm beginning again, with a welder that doesn't mess me about, and with a new bottle of Coogar 5 gas which certainly beats the hell out of the pub CO2 bottle I was using before. I was wondering if you could cast your eyes over the following butt-welds and maybe offer some advice on getting better penetration. It's 2mm mild steel plate, with a gap which you can see in the photos, and with settings that you'll see in this photo here:

This is an overall view of some welds I did with different techniques, with the penetration from welds on the other sides visible as well. It looks like the two small welds at the bottom left penetrated quite well. They were both using circling push technique

Here is the reverse view. In this picture, the penetration visible on the top left, is from the weld at the top right of the previous photo, so the welds at the bottom right are for the good penetration visible in the previous photo at the bottom left.

This is a close-up of my favourite.. I did a circling push technique on it

and the closeup of the reverse side!

Any tips of getting really good penetration would be welcome

 

[redwine300]

Nice looking welds in my humble opinion,
Just a couple of suggestions that may help, try a small chamfered edge on both sides of both mating faces, also, may be worth slowing your torch speed a little at a time allowing the weld pool to form further through the joint.
keep the pictures coming.

 

[malcolm]

Put something under it so the joint isn't sitting on the bench. It looks like the machine is set to maximum, and it ought to do 2mm no trouble, but the welds look very cold - the sort of thing you'd get at half those amps. Possibly the bench is acting as a heat sink, possibly earth problems (anything else getting hot?), possibly a diode out in the rectifier, or maybe just technique.

Torch angle looks like it could be a bit high. Ought to be not miles off perpendicular to the work. Maybe 20 degrees angle from there.

Try no weave too - just go in a straight line and watch the weld puddle travel along. If you don't really get much of a weld puddle try slowing down and turning the wire speed down a little. Keep the torch close to the work.

 

[tombardier]

Many thanks for the replies!

I actually welded everything with it stood upright in a vice, from right to left. The metal was glowing red hot for about the width of the weld build-up either side (or more)!

I haven't got a gas flow meter at the moment, so I'm basing my gas flow on the idea that if I can feel it blowing gently on my hand from the torch, then it's enough!

As for the torch angle, I think I actually held it at about 20 degrees

It could possible be earthing, as I'm earthing through the welding table, which the vice is bolted on to, so I'll have a go at earthing directly to the work piece.

I hope there's no actual problems with the welder, as it's only a couple of weeks old, and seems to me to work really well, especially compared to my last one which I sold on ebay for £40 on the basis that it was crap!

One more thing, I'm using Clarke 0.6mm wire, and yes, it is on the maximum setting

 

[tombardier]

Hokay,

Taken some suggestions on board, and have had another go at it. I've tried to not use weaving, and just gone straight down the line, letting the weld pool build up, using different wire speeds. Here is a top and bottom view of my attempts at butt welding some 2mm strips together (they're about an inch and a half wide). I ground a slight bevel in to the edges to assist. The long weld at the bottom was the only one done with the plate flat on my work table. With the others, I tacked all of the strips together, and then tacked the whole lot to the work table, and had my earth clamp directly on a nicely grinded piece of the work table, so directly on the same piece of metal. I'm still not getting the kind of penetration that I think I should really?! In my opinion I preferred the welds I did before. Just going down the line without any weaving looks to have just given me big weld deposits that stand higher?

 

[redwine300]

Not sure if this will be of help but I have had similar problems,
I found that if I backed off the wire speed just shy of burning back, in conjunction with a 1 to 2 second dwell when initiating the weld pool, I was able to weld slower therefore creating more heat and maintaining a strong local melt. I believe that if you have to quick a wire feed it subconsciously makes your torch speed to quick, thus not allowing a hot enough weld to form and more over, be maintained along the run.

 

[malcolm]

Does the arc sound OK? Nice constant hiss or sizzle, not popping (wire speed).

Just popped out to try mine. For 2mm setting 4 of 9 (roughly the equivalent of a Clarke 90 on max) looked like yours but slightly more penetration. I'm on 0.6mm wire too. You are definitely welding 2mm, not 3mm?

I think your welder is not working properly - 140 amps should be blowing holes in that regardless of technique. Are the switches wired backwards?

 

[tombardier]

Thanks for the help guys. I thought I'd have another go, this time, with a larger gap. It looks like I've got good penetration on a couple of these welds. I wonder if it looks like adequate fusion though?

With regards to having the leads the right way round. This welder is gas only, so you can't swap the polarity. Well thunk though

More piccies. A mix of weaviness and straight down the line - please note, I did grind the other side of the rusty plate you see at the top, just not the bottom!

and another.

 

[tombardier]

Just to add, I've tried knocking the wire speed back a bit too. I've been trying it quite high, as I gather that that's the way to get the amperage up. Knocked it back from between 6-7 to just over 5. Any less is a bit too slow

I'm hoping to build up to doing the rear cross-member on my landy at some point soon

 

[tombardier]

You'll never guess what. It's been 3mm plate all along. I've just been out to measure up again! Does my lack of penetration make sense now?

 

[gavuk]

i would be using 0.8 wire for 3mm,......also you don't say if you have an extension lead running the welder?..often there is a voltage drop using an extension....

 

[tombardier]

I do have some .8mm wire, so I'll give that a go. I'm also using quite a long garden extension lead, and that's really interesting. I had no idea. I've also got my fume extraction system hooked up to the same extension lead, and a 500 watt halogen floodlight!

I might see how I get on without them plugged in, and try and come up with an alternative arrangement!

Cheers all

 

[Wozzaaah]

Amazing how it all falls into place when you're pressed for a bit more info!
The welder should be on it's own supply, if you absolutely MUST run it on a long extension lead then it has to be 2.5mm2 cable, anything smaller will result in too much volt drop.

 

[gavuk]

try plugging welder directly into socket... try that before changing wire and see what difference you get .....I use 0.8 for everything.....

 

[malcolm]

3mm is towards the limit for the welder, so 0.8mm wire would make sense, and what they said above - power supply doesn't sound great and is probably taking 20 amps off the top range of the welder. Don't go mad with wire speed - it's a fine control within the parameters where the welder gives a consistent sizzle.

For thicker metal you can increase penetration a lot by putting a V into the joint - similar to http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/arc-flat-joints.htm

 

[tombardier]

well guess what. I didn't change any machine or gas parameters, and simply plugged the welder in to its own supply, and hey presto, instead of crackling when welding, I get more of a buzz (indicating wire speed way too fast). Knocked back the wire speed a fair bit, and it looks to be working well. I'm finding it easy now to get penetration at least as good as the best shots from the photos I posted, and that's just with a bit of casual, straight down the line with fairly fast travel speed. I'll try some 0.8mm wire, which should be what I'm using for 3mm plate anyway, and I think I'll be burning holes through it in no time lol!

Thanks for all your help everyone. Really appreciate it. I think it shows that it's not what you know, it's who you know sometimes, as I really didn't have a clue about the power supply stuff, and I've learned an awful lot about various other things just from putting up my photos and reading your comments. I think I might take it one step further though, and get some formal training. Hopefully I'm well on my way to tackling the rear cross-member on my landy! I think the welding itself will probably turn out to be the least of my worries when I get around to doing it!

 

[backpurge]

My main suggestion would be to get your speed up, the welds look too wide and built up for the thickness material you are welding, a higher speed should also give you better penetration but well done, you are certainly on the right track

 

[gavuk]

Glad losing the extension reel helped .....have you tried the welder on thin steel yet ?...it would be great if you could post up some more pictures !,we often get asked about sealey welders but clarke is always offered as the best budget welder ,would be great to get a small review,as a previous owner of a sealey I thought it was a good buy ...and people i know who have the 180amp are very pleased but due to a lack of good reviews,even I'm reluctant to recommend the new sealey welders.....

 

[tombardier]

I actually did a review of my new welder in the Sealey/siegen section of the forums I would dispute the 'professional' tag that they've given the welder, and the idea that the chassis supports medium sized industrial gas bottles is plainly not true. It only comfortably supports disposables really. Other than that, and the negatives I put in my review, im pleased with it

Review was here btw - http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=24296

 

[gavuk]

oops ......i had read it as well .....maybe you could post some pics up if you do some thin metal as most people seem to start with cars ?...did you stay with the 0.6mm wire ?or have you changed to 0.8mm?