New to welding & this site: Some first experiences...

[DavidL]

Hi all,

Firstly, I'd like to say I think this is a great site, and thanks to Malcolm for taking the time to prepare the tutorials & guides; they are most helpful, and to the folk who post here for the interesting discussions and advice. Apologies in advance for the long post, but I thought I'd post my very first experiences with welding, in the hope they might be useful to other newbies, and to seek advice on what I'm doing wrong

Right then: I've recently got myself a Clarke MIG 90EN, and I'm hoping to teach myself a little about welding, with the help of this site of course! I took the welder out to the shed the other evening, in an attempt to practise running some (gasless) welding lines on scrap metal. Unfortunately, I don't yet have access to sheets for practice (and I must admit, I'm not too sure where to pick these up from, failing looking at a scrappy for any old sheet offcuts.)

As a result, I started by cleaning the paint from some old motorcycle stands, and started to practise welding lines along the tubing. Obviously, being tubing, I couldn't really assess the penetration, but I thought I'd try and get a reasonably straight line sussed first!
I found the following points particularly hard; I don't know if these ring bells with other novices:
***Start position of torch before arc is struck with mask down. It's very much a leap of faith, though having a non-live torch is nice as I can position, then flip the mask down and squeeze the trigger.
***Visibility of the "weld pool" - I found I could see where I was going and where I'd been - to a certain extent, but the area of weld itself seemed to be stealthily cloaking! The tutorial gives the impression this is a problem associated with gasless welding, but I notice in the tutorials that you can still get a neat and straight weld anyhow. Is this just a matter of self-confidence & coordination?
***Holding the torch steady and moving gently and slowly enough - I don't know why, but welding seemed to induce the shakes! It could've been the molten metal rain, it could've been low blood sugars - still not sure I tried 2 hands on the torch, but that didn't seem to improve matters. I guess I'll get there!
***Getting the wire speed right - Fiddling with the machine while welding was a no-no; I just don't have the co-ordination yet so it took a lot of stopping & starting! I think I understand FAR too fast, and FAR too slow, but in between is still a very blurred area to me!

About an hour and some new swear words later, I was capable of welding a reasonably neat(ish), consistent(ish), and straight(ish) line on the tubing Confidence boosted by this achievement, I decided I would try my hands at my first ever repair job (oh dear, mistake!).

I have an old concrete mixer which has split two bottom welds on the framework, leading to the frame sagging & twisting as weight is added to the drum. A perfect first job... So I thought! I carefully cleaned up the metal around the welds using a drill & wire brush (the grinder is currently out on loan), clamped the frame together, upped the power a little and started to "weld".

Well, it was like starting again from scratch. Much wire speed fiddling later, I was eventually getting a consistent(ish), though not at all "neat" weld. In an attempt to try and "save" the job, I cleaned up the small bit I'd done, and attempted to "overlay" a series of (hopefully) neater welds on top of this.
I just couldn't seem to get it right, and ended up with blobs on top of blobs, mountains, depressions, and no matter what I tried, it just didn't seem to go right.
I tried speeding up the torch movement, pushing, pulling, slowing down, zig-zagging, curved zig-zagging, but it all seemed to produce a very inconsistent and untidy weld. Not being able to see the actual "pool" only served to increase frustration.

The welds have survived my carefully devised "hefty club hammer blows" test, so for now, they will "do". However, I'd like to be able to improve the appearance (and no doubt, the strength of the join).

As such, and to try and make "Superbad - I think I can't weld" feel better about his/her welding, I've included a picture of "one that went really wrong" for your amusement & much valued conclusions. Is it just general technique, wire speeds, poor area preparation, or a combination of all 3 that are causing my problems? As I say, thanks to the wire speed tutorial, I think I understand the very extremes of bad wire speed, but finding the perfect spot in the middle is still eluding me.

The more I tried to "build up" the weld to improve the inconsistencies, the worse it got - with those shiny peaks causing me to cringe at the true pinnacle of poor quality!

When I get the grinder back, I'll be cleaning that up (and probably starting again!). However, all comments & advice appreciated (other than "give it up!")
Many thanks,
-David

 

[GizzaGoM8]

not that i know much about welding, but that looks stuck to me

neat it may not be, but as long as its bonded, who cares

isn`t it on the under-side anyways?

 

[shenion]

If you are using the handheld mask that comes with the Clarke, then that is a problem. They are too dark (#13) and require you to hold them.

You really want both hands free. I usually put one fist on the work to brace my other hand with the torch. Gets rid of the shakes.

An adjustable auto darkening helmet makes it much easier. I usually run mine at shade 10 or 11. Then you can see much better and starting is easy. It is much easier to see the weld pool.

I started with the mask provided and wandered all over the place as I could not see the work.

Check out the wire speed video in the tutorial. Listen to the sound carefully. I found it a big help when i started.

You weld looks ok for gasless wire.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Relax, relax and relax! Keep the torch nice and close, a mistake often made is having the torch too far from the work so the stick-out is just too much. Travel speed is important, too quick and you'll end up with a narrow weld with no penetration, too slow and you'll have a shallow, wide bead but you run the risk of blowing through. The best thing to do is get lots of bits of scrap and just keep practising, you'll soon get a feel for things. An auto mask is a real help, search on here and you'll find several recent threads covering them.
Woz

 

[malcolm]

The key is to look at the weld pool. You want to develop a pool of molten metal and move the torch treading the balance between blowing holes and not penetrating. That's how you get a smooth weld.

Not a lot of help for gasless as you can't see so much, though you can see a bit of the weld pool shape. Bit of practice on different power settings working at a constant speed to get an idea when you blow through. Torch travel speed can be varied against power settings (lower power slow speed works like high power high speed). Try the calculator for a starting point for the machine set up for power and wire speed.

I think you are short on power for that weld too.

 

[JP96]

Just to add as a newbie to welding I've found the better I get at preparing the metal the better my results. It also took me burning up about half of the 1/2lb roll of flux core wire to get a feel for the proper wire speed without too much fiddling.

As has been said an auto-darkening mask helps a lot in positioning your start and keeping it there. I usually brace my hand somewhere to keep the weld straight when I'm working. The Clarke manual should have a guide at the back for the wire speed settings those will put you in the neighborhood of where you should be depending on the thickness you are working with. Your actual travel speed and real world differences can alter that a bit, but it shouldn't be hard to get it right.

I think it's a rule that when you start you'll get to a point where you get mad/frustrated and just want to keep burning wire until it gets better, or you feel better but you need to back off and see what you're doing wrong or at least take a breather. I've ruined some 'good' scraps that I was doing well on until I made a small mistake, then became frustrated, and ended up screwing the whole thing up. I haven't tried a real project yet as my confidence level hasn't been high enough and I didn't want to ruin anything.

Also I can't see in the picture where you placed your ground but getting it a little closer to the welding area might help your welds.

Keep at it, thanks for sharing your experiences and let us know how it turns out!

 

[DavidL]

Thanks to everyone who has replied with suggestions and comments, it really is very much appreciated.

I am using a "proper" (i.e. not handheld) mask, and have lenses from 9 to 12 available (9 / 10 seemed the best), but an auto darkening mask seems a Very Good Thing Indeed! It's certainly one for the shopping list, as and when funds allow.

I'm going to try and build up the confidence to tune the wire speed "on the go", as I think this will help, particularly for the comparison with the useful wire speed video & its sounds. I did start with the speeds suggested in the Clarke manual, but found those on the fast side, and I guess I'm still not quite getting the sweet spot, along with the other issues I'm having.

I put the ground clamp on the tube you can just see starting towards the left hand of the picture - it joins perpendicular (coming towards you, out of the picture, as it were) to the welded tube. It was as close as I could manage without it getting in the way one way or another, thought point taken.

Thanks for the suggestion of supporting the torch hand with the other, rather than trying to grip it with two - that is not something I'd even considered. A bit like an artist & paintbrush, I guess.

Anyway, I'll try and source some bits of scrap and carry on practising, and keep you all posted. I'll also try to enjoy it a bit more, relax, and steady the nerves(!)

Once again, thanks very much for all your opinions, advice and encouragement! I look forward to sharing developments, with hopefully some pictures of better, neater welding attempts
-David

 

[bright-spark]

stick at it David you are doing well there mate for your first welds. Have you found some where around you to pick up some off cuts to practice on yet your local yellow pages is a good place to start Iv found a local place where they have a skip out the back all I do is get the lads a round of coffee and I can help myself take it home and (blow holes) sorry weld bits together.
The course I am on at collage is also outstanding and well worth it just for talking to other welders that are there and then being able to see how it's done, the collage has also some very good kit to play around with, I'm 46 by the way and most of the lads there are about 23-56 years old and some are even working in the welding trade.

Welcome to the forum by the way

David

 

[Joval]

I'm a beginner too and found the shakes pass after a few attempts
and having an auto mask on the right setting is a huge help.

 

[teilky]

first thing pal is the job aint clean ie the paint on the frame or the tubes you are welding.If you cleaned the frame with a sanding disc that would help, but for you welds look good cause the paint causes oxi..dation cant spell it right lol.You are doing good : To stop the splater there is a spray to stop splater.on when the frame is clean.

hope that helps

andy

 

[teilky]

ps i should have said most timeserved welders wont try to weld thin metal with a mig, looks there welds look bad.try getting 1/4 inch plate and turn the mig up and go slow make an u upside down action one one top of another.hope that made sence

 

[Thylacine]

A little trick.

I'm not familiar with the Clarke setup, but if you have a gas shroud on the gun, take it off when using gasless wire!

I've found it much much easier to do precise work with a bare tip.

Just don't let the tip touch the work while you're welding.

I do agree that a 90 amp welder might be struggling to do this job, but we all had to start somewhere. Keep practicing.

 

[DavidL]

Thanks folks for all the comments and feedback! Just a quick update (essay) to let you know how I'm getting on...

Unfortunately, I still haven't had chance to source any scrap pieces for practising just yet, so Doris (my concrete mixer) is still the test bed!
I tried extending some of the other frame welds tonight, just for fun/practice. Unfortunately, no photos for feedback, as a) it was dark by photo time, so they didn't come out too well focussed, and b) by the time I got round to snapping, I'd already done a bit of cleaning up with the grinder, so it would've given an unrealistic/favourable impression anyhow
In good news, I have my grinder back, so I've been able to do a more thorough paint cleaning/grinding job (and embed some of the loose wire brush strands in my calf ), and generally tidy up and start again when welds go wrong.

I'm finding that things are slowly getting easier, and that the shakes have reduced a lot as my nerves calm down. After reading the warnings the first time re: burns, shock, accidental welding of the tip, etc, etc, etc, it'd be fair to say that I was a little nervous at how the welder would behave - and those worries have calmed down a little.
While I'm still of the opinion an auto-dark mask would be Very Nice, I'm getting used to flip up/flip down, and I've settled on a shade 10 as a good balance of visibility without too much glare for my current settings.

Given some of the comments re: the 90EN being a bit lacking in power for this job, I've decided not to worry too much about weld penetration for now (particularly as I'm now "extending" sound welds), and concentrate instead on trying to get a neatish and straight weld.
As such, I've come down to power 1-MAX, which seems a little less fierce and easier to control. I'm slowly getting there (neat & straight), and have found that taking the wire speed down (certainly a lot further than I expected on the dial) is helping, though I'm still struggling to get that frying pan sound spot on.
Adjusting speed on the go is still a bit too much coordination for me, but found that I was getting a bit of wire slip in certain circumstances, and that nipping up the roller tension just a little more has eliminated that, which has really helped.
I have also found that concentrating my efforts on right, obtuse, or the reflex-angled side of joins has made it a little easier. The access and visibility on the acute-angle (at the point where the tube joined the plate) joins I welded last time made it perhaps less than ideal for my first "real" attempt.
I think that's another reason my first Doris-repair-welds ended up so tall & built up, as it got easier to see/control as I filled in more metal and the access angle moved nearer to 90degs, giving the torch more freedom of movement. I hope that makes some sense!

I'm feeling a lot more confident that I'll get there, given time (and metal!) to practice. It seems to be a little more under my control, rather than it feeling like I was trying to influence a scary sparky gun that's bouncing about the workpiece - which describes accurately, if clumsily, how it felt on the first attempt!

Just to respond to a couple of points I missed the first time:
*Welding classes - they'd be great, really. I think right now that some supervised practice & instruction would be just what the doctor ordered! Unfortunately, for now, cost and time constraints prohibit me from doing so, but it's certainly something I intend for the future.
*Taking the shroud off - thanks for the tip (bubum) - until the shakes pass completely, I'm a little reluctant to try that. As it is at the moment, I do bang the shroud on the work quite a bit, and I'm not sure what'd happen if I was doing that with the tip instead - I imagine it'd involve some kind of unintended welding of tips to wire, or tips to workpiece, neither of which would be good for the confidence just now

As I've sourced a mail-order regulator (thanks Weldequip, received today!), and hopefully some reasonably priced gas locally, I'm hoping to experiment with some "proper" gas-shielded welding in the very near future, which is something I'm really looking forward to! I do hope that doesn't sound too sad!

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to getting some more practice in as time allows, and will post more (photo-based) updates - hopefully if I'm not boring you with all this(!)
-David

 

[Gas mark 5]

Keep at it! if those are your first attempts, there better than mine.
I'm a begginer as well, but here are some tips that I think are right:

Gas welding is much, much easier than flux welding, especialy for newbies (such as me)

Make sure that the metal is completly clean on both sides of the join and clean a good spot for the clamp

Prehaps have a slighlty slower torch speed and a little more zig-zaging

If you find the wire arcing against the sides you might need to increase the wires speed slightly, though it looks quite fast already.

don't think about the warnings - my first introduction to mig welding was from my DT teacher at school; 'Have you ever welded before'?
'no'
'hold the tourch near the metal and pull the trigger'
'OK'

Keep going though! welding is fun!

 

[marknotgeorge]

A tip to get the right amount of stickout at the beginning. Cut the end of the wire of with a pair of side cutting pliers - the normal sort with a round hole one side and wire cutters on the other side. If you cut the end of the wire with the round hole side against the shroud, you get just about the right amount of stickout.