New nuclear announced

[Kayos]

There is a local biogas cooperative around here, farmers who're part of it send their cowshit off and digestate, upgraded with food waste gets returned. With higher nutrient value than the original ****e. The downside is that the food waste also adds loads of plastic. They can see lots of tiny bits in the fields.

Imo, turning food waste into energy is an incredibly inefficient process.

We are adding a pre-sort plant to remove the plastic etc, this is then sent back for recycling

Your opinion needs backing up with figures, which tell me the simple payback of the install is under 8 years.

That means, if the site consumes all the electricity they will fully pay for the install with the savings they make on electricity in under 8 years, however this site is only operational 2 days a week and the bulk of the electricity is being sold on a private wire agreement to a large consumer, this and the 24/7 operation means the payback reduces to 2.5 years

So in short, it is highly efficient when done correctly

 

[Gareth J]

We are adding a pre-sort plant to remove the plastic etc, this is then sent back for recycling

Your opinion needs backing up with figures, which tell me the simple payback of the install is under 8 years.

That means, if the site consumes all the electricity they will fully pay for the install with the savings they make on electricity in under 8 years, however this site is only operational 2 days a week and the bulk of the electricity is being sold on a private wire agreement to a large consumer, this and the 24/7 operation means the payback reduces to 2.5 years

So in short, it is highly efficient when done correctly

Just thinking in very basic terms, every step involved in the process adds inefficiency;
-plants tilled and fertilised
-plants use sunlight to grow
-plants harvested
-plants processed and transported at least one place, if not to and from a shop/ the schools
-bugs digest plants
-methane
-methane burnt to run generator
-electric.

There is a product that can do sunlight to electric in one step.

I'm not against it as a useful option where food waste is inevitable. But it is an incredibly round about way of getting useful energy from sunlight. Hopefully the plastic sorting has improved too

 

[daleyd]

I thought the other big upside to reprocessing waste was the removal of methane from the atmosphere?

A company I worked for years ago supplied a big oxidiser at Tilbury docks which ran off the gases produced by human waste, I wasn’t involved with the job myself but I believe burning the methane through the oxidiser (it was self sustaining when up to temperature) made it much much less harmful to the environment.

 

[Kayos]

Just thinking in very basic terms, every step involved in the process adds inefficiency;
-plants tilled and fertilised
-plants use sunlight to grow
-plants harvested
-plants processed and transported at least one place, if not to and from a shop/ the schools
-bugs digest plants
-methane
-methane burnt to run generator
-electric.

There is a product that can do sunlight to electric in one step.

I'm not against it as a useful option where food waste is inevitable. But it is an incredibly round about way of getting useful energy from sunlight. Hopefully the plastic sorting has improved too

The AD is built where the slurry is, it is fed with slurry, food waste and grass cuttings. 3 things that currently have a high disposal cost
Nothing is grown just to feed the plant, it is 100% waste, the plastic sorting is excellent

The solar PV array on the roof is still being designed but a back of the breakfast napkin calculation tells me it will be 200kw ish

I understand the resistance to the new tech, especially on this forum, but it's here and it's getting bigger if you like it or not

 

[mtt.tr]

Just thinking in very basic terms, every step involved in the process adds inefficiency;
-plants tilled and fertilised
-plants use sunlight to grow
-plants harvested
-plants processed and transported at least one place, if not to and from a shop/ the schools
-bugs digest plants
-methane
-methane burnt to run generator
-electric.

There is a product that can do sunlight to electric in one step.

I'm not against it as a useful option where food waste is inevitable. But it is an incredibly round about way of getting useful energy from sunlight. Hopefully the plastic sorting has improved too

I forget that petrols efficiency is put in tank burn

And nuclear is fuel rods in electric out

 

[Kayos]

I thought the other big upside to reprocessing waste was the removal of methane from the atmosphere?

A company I worked for years ago supplied a big oxidiser at Tilbury docks which ran off the gases produced by human waste, I wasn’t involved with the job myself but I believe burning the methane through the oxidiser (it was self sustaining when up to temperature) made it much much less harmful to the environment.

I have a hard enough time getting people to realise this stuff works, if I start talking about reductions in GWP (global warming potential) I will drive myself nuts

Thanks for bringing it up though, at least one person gets it

 

[daleyd]

I have a hard enough time getting people to realise this stuff works, if I start talking about reductions in GWP (global warming potential) I will drive myself nuts

Thanks for bringing it up though, at least one person gets it

I think the fact you get energy out at the end is a double win, at least that’s how I understand it.

I think I posted this before, but this was the company I used to work for and some projects they did for coal mines and removal of very low concentration of methane from their ventilation air - even though the concentration was low the volume was huge over a period of time, and they were able to produce usable steam from it. This was back in early 2000s before it became fashionable

https://www.globalmethane.org/documents/events_coal_120904_megtec.pdf

 

[Kayos]

I think the fact you get energy out at the end is a double win, at least that’s how I understand it.

I think I posted this before, but this was the company I used to work for and some projects they did for coal mines and removal of very low concentration of methane from their ventilation air - even though the concentration was low the volume was huge over a period of time, and they were able to produce usable steam from it. This was back in early 2000s before it became fashionable

https://www.globalmethane.org/documents/events_coal_120904_megtec.pdf

Looks a good project

In my case it is a double win, the slurry/food waste/grass cuttings all need to be disposed of so if it can be made into electricity then why not?

 

[minimutly]

Doesn’t change what I posted above - as a water company we’ve been selling digested, and even dried sludge for years. I got as far away as fast as I could - it’s a world of wearing out, worn out kit, every day, and no one wants to pay for it or work on it....

I'm not justifying a job to someone on a forum who has minimal info and has admitted they no longer work on the plant. The system works, as it is a carbon copy of another already in use for considerable time

Sorry, I didn’t mean to say the system doesn’t work - it does, but is a mechanical process that needs constant attention to work. You don’t need to justify anything.

 

[Ross365]

Well, it looks as though the Hinkley B AGR's will close this summer https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-hinkley-point-b-reactor-avert-blackout-risk

In another life ~40 years ago, the oxidation behaviour of AGR fuel cladding was my bread and butter. Whereas for the retirement of a large ship, or even Concorde, the end of service was noted by the media and the public, but the old AGR's are slipping away so very quietly.

 

[highseas]

Trawsfynnydd was an ugly thing against a beautiful background. Hopefully these'll be landscaped.
It the 1,000 to 10,000 year lifespan of the residue and the long term storage that's the main concern.
I suppose the thinking is ..leave it to the next generation, we'll be dead?

It’s ok they will just send it all to us in the lakes to bury

 

[Lewis_RX8]

I thought the other big upside to reprocessing waste was the removal of methane from the atmosphere?

A company I worked for years ago supplied a big oxidiser at Tilbury docks which ran off the gases produced by human waste, I wasn’t involved with the job myself but I believe burning the methane through the oxidiser (it was self sustaining when up to temperature) made it much much less harmful to the environment.

There are a lot of Cummins and various other natural gas engines that run on methane from landfills , Not 100% on how the methane gets to the engines think its to do with boreholes tarps etc to trap and suck up the methane before it goes to the atmosphere, This can then be sent through gas gen-sets to burn the methane which makes it a lot less harmful to the atmosphere as you say but also produce power which they can sell, when the engines are stripped down their all a bit manky as it's not a very clean gas for obvious reasons.

This is why they would flare the gas if the gensets are down again its better off being burnt which may look worse to joe public but really makes it far less harmful to the enviroment.

As we all love links in this thread , Intresting read about setting up the project - https://incal.cummins.com/www/literature/casehistories/F-1579-Viridor-en.pdf

 

[fizzy]

Well, it looks as though the Hinkley B AGR's will close this summer https://www.theguardian.com/environ...e-hinkley-point-b-reactor-avert-blackout-risk

In another life ~40 years ago, the oxidation behaviour of AGR fuel cladding was my bread and butter. Whereas for the retirement of a large ship, or even Concorde, the end of service was noted by the media and the public, but the old AGR's are slipping away so very quietly.

Yes the government just asked them to extend the life - but of course too late - it's gone past that now.
Another nail in our electricity supply.
Never mind more wind and solar will fix all that

 

[fizzy]

Not sure what they are doing at the main sewage plant in Swansea. When it was built it was really advanced and you never had a whiff from there.
Then they decided to go green.
The result is a stink from hell. It is truly awful. Luckily my warehouse is a few hundred yards West of it. The winds are nearly always Westerlies here but I have to drive past it to get to work. Your really can taste it.
All the residents complain about it

Sewage smell in Swansea causing a stink for residents

Residents from Swansea form a new campaign group to tackle a "disgusting" smell of sewage which is affecting the area where they live.

www.bbc.co.uk

This article was in 2015. Still the same today. Apparently if it is good for the environment then sod everyone else

And a current article

Main road into city stinks but now there's another plan to make it less smelly

One dog day care business owner said the smell in Fabian Way sometimes outweighed the odour of the animals' poo, and it's been a problem for years now

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[minimutly]

Going green wouldn't have made it smelly - they must be venting part of the works to atmosphere. For info the whole thing is underground, originally the atmosphere was scrubbed by huge acid rainfal tanks, frightening things. Running methane engines should theoretically reduce emmissions.
The answer, as allways, for the residents is to complain directly - this affects the company score card negatively.

 

[fizzy]

Going green wouldn't have made it smelly - they must be venting part of the works to atmosphere. For info the whole thing is underground, originally the atmosphere was scrubbed by huge acid rainfal tanks, frightening things. Running methane engines should theoretically reduce emmissions.
The answer, as allways, for the residents is to complain directly - this affects the company score card negatively.

They have been complaining for at least 7 years!
No idea why it didn't smell in the first few years but then started to stink so much.
It really is horrific. Even in Winter.
Never mind - the flagship new Swansea University buildings are just down wind of it

 

[prepman]

We are adding a pre-sort plant to remove the plastic etc, this is then sent back for recycling

Your opinion needs backing up with figures, which tell me the simple payback of the install is under 8 years.

That means, if the site consumes all the electricity they will fully pay for the install with the savings they make on electricity in under 8 years, however this site is only operational 2 days a week and the bulk of the electricity is being sold on a private wire agreement to a large consumer, this and the 24/7 operation means the payback reduces to 2.5 years

So in short, it is highly efficient when done correctly

Is this still a conceptual project or is it actually, up, running and proved? No sarcasm intended.

 

[prepman]

I would honestly like to be green (not physically) ..But I drive a diesel car, I burn fuel oil for heating, I use labour saving devices (washer/drier/d'washer/computers), weld, 3D print, use a furnace, drive a tractor and digger.
I don't grow my own food, buy pre-packed food from supermarkets. Have big tv sets.
I need to give all this up to make any effect. Where do I start?
I tend to think I'm not alone?
If only the Chinese had been happy being poor, then we might have just scraped by?
As an aside. I often wonder how the enviromental protestors actually get to their protest venues.
Walk, bike or stick-and-hoop?
As I see it we need at least one power plant for bitcoin and another for Google?

 

[Kayos]

Is this still a conceptual project or is it actually, up, running and proved? No sarcasm intended.

This one is at the design stage
There are 2 others, one is up and running, generating energy from food and grass cuttings. The other is due on site mid June and will be running by the end of July

 

[daleyd]

There are a lot of Cummins and various other natural gas engines that run on methane from landfills , Not 100% on how the methane gets to the engines think its to do with boreholes tarps etc to trap and suck up the methane before it goes to the atmosphere, This can then be sent through gas gen-sets to burn the methane which makes it a lot less harmful to the atmosphere as you say but also produce power which they can sell, when the engines are stripped down their all a bit manky as it's not a very clean gas for obvious reasons.

This is why they would flare the gas if the gensets are down again its better off being burnt which may look worse to joe public but really makes it far less harmful to the enviroment.

As we all love links in this thread , Intresting read about setting up the project - https://incal.cummins.com/www/literature/casehistories/F-1579-Viridor-en.pdf

The stuff we did for coal mines was to remove the low concentration methane, which wasn’t enough to run a conventional engine.

It was something like 0.5% methane but the actual volume of air exhausted was enormous - so there was a lot of methane coming out but in a very dilute state.