New member and choice of welder

[JulieandTony]

Hi,

We have just joined and looking for some advice.

Have done a little stick welding some years ago as an apprentice, and tried mig at the time (no better than stick TBH at the time).

Now looking to get a mig welder, and having a VAT free card from MM it looks like now is the time.

Will be welding thin plate such as car body, but mainly black iron up to 6mm (fillet welds), so need to go quite low and a little higher - happy to spend up to ~£300 which puts most of the Clarke ones in budget whilst the VAT free offer is around.

However the clarke range is totally confusing!

e.g the 150TE and 151TE appear identical - only physical size is diferent!

So why such a range?

Am considering the 160EN - or the 160TM - both around the £250 mark, yet both have the same current rating, yet one can do 4-5mm, the other 5-6mm - and its the more hobby one which can do more!

Obviously being able to use no-gas wire on the 160EN is an advantage as well - or is it?

With this budget - what would the forum reccomend?

(oh off 13A 240 supply)

Thanks

Julie & Tony

 

[Wozzaaah]

Sorry but none of those machines are up to regular use on 6mm despite what the sales gumph says, no way no how.
For that sort of thickness you're looking at something way more than your £300 budget will get you if you want to buy new, probably twice that for something with enough power and a good enough duty cycle to make it usable.
Ideally, you're looking at something around 200 amps + though if it's only occasional use you 'may' get away with something around 180A but you'll be running it flat out on 6mm so don't be surprised if the thermal cutout keeps tripping...or worse.

Oh, and you'll need more than a 13A supply to run it off, you'll just about get 150A at a push.

 

[JulieandTony]

Thanks, 6mm is top end of what we would be looking at, we know about the 13A limit, what we really mean is we will be on single phase 240V - we will most likely wire in some commando plugs/sockets most likely the 16A size to reach the top end capacity.

Realistically what material thickness in MS do you believe the 160TM/EN will do?

not continious but likely 30% duration or similar?

We can't really afford to go larger, both because of cost, and current limitations, so it will be more a limit on what we can weld due to the equipment rather than the other way around.

Thanks

Julie&Tony

 

[Wozzaaah]

3mm comfortably, 4-5mm with a bit of prep, 6mm if you just want to blob it together and don't really care if it holds or not.
What sort of things are you planning on using it for?

 

[stuvy]

welcome to the forum, if you have a look in the for sale section there are second hand welders within in your price range from time to time with the capacity for 6mm.

 

[keith19]

"Realistically what material thickness in MS do you believe the 160TM/EN will do?"

Remember these are 150 Amp machines, not 160 as you might expect. So they will only do the same thickness as their cheaper Clarke 150 brethren. Realistically, this is about 4 - 5 mm (sometimes prepared) thickness in short bursts of a few inches at a time. The duty cycle at the top end to do this is only about 10% - 15%, about 1.5 minutes actual welding in every 10.

Because most of us who use them are hobby welders and rarely have need of long runs in one go, we just weld a little, fit up the next bit of the job, weld a little, make a pot of tea, weld a little, drink a cup of tea, weld a little... You get the idea.

As Woz implies, you will need a much more powerful machine to get a 30% duty cycle, or anything like it, at the top end.

The Clarkes are good machines for what they are, and will do short runs of 4 - 5 mm steel, especially if it is prepared beforehand like veeing a butt joint, but they will be slow if you need to do any quantity. They just get out of breath, and pack up when the thermal cutout operates. Then you have to wait anything from 10 mins to 30 mins before the m/c is ready to weld again.

If like many of us your budget doesn't stretch to a pro machine, and you think you will need to weld 5 or 6 mm or thicker steel occasionally, get an old arc welder and gradually learn how to use it. They are cheap and plentiful, and even the small ones will make short work of thicknesses your 150 Amp Clarke won't even look at, all off a 13 Amp domestic socket. But they do take serious learning before you can use them efficiently.

 

[JulieandTony]

Thanks all for the info’

3mm comfortably, 4-5mm with a bit of prep, 6mm if you just want to blob it together and don't really care if it holds or not.
What sort of things are you planning on using it for?

We don’t have a project as such at the moment, but over the years there have been many times where having and being able to use it would have helped!

So there has been quite a lot of bodywork/chassis, the occasional bit of “heavy Iron-work” such as the stand for the milling machine – so 50x75x5mm size or similar, and the other odd bit here and there, it is likely that if we do get a decent welder then we would do the “wrought Iron fence/banister” on the steps to the house, so this would be HDMS most of which would be 20x3mm plus 30x5mm for outers, and some 3mm thick box section for uprights etc.

However the idea is to become competent and then be able to weld all the jobs that come along rather than get a tool to do a specific job. (Within the limits of the kit.)

We need to decide rather quickly as the VAT free at MM ends on the 5th Jan for us, and this makes quite a difference, if we go with the 160TM then with an auto-headshield, wire, spares etc this is circ £280+£50+£30+£4 = £364 then there is the gas bottle – putting this at £440 or so all in for new kit whilst the VAT free offer is on.

If we go with the 160EN, then although it is somewhat cheeper (£240) with the additional hose(£10) and regulator(~£35) it comes out around the same as the 160TM.

Are we likely to find a full set-up for better gear around this price? – Problem is, we can look on ebay etc but don’t know if it’s any good or not – no experience!

Anyone selling a Portamig with gas bottle, spares, wire and autoheadshield? – please?

....about 1.5 minutes actual welding in every 10....

eek

We expected it to be a bit on/off but this is much lower than we thought!

.....If like many of us your budget doesn't stretch to a pro machine, and you think you will need to weld 5 or 6 mm or thicker steel occasionally, get an old arc welder and gradually learn how to use it. They are cheap and plentiful, and even the small ones will make short work of thicknesses your 150 Amp Clarke won't even look at, all off a 13 Amp domestic socket. But they do take serious learning before you can use them efficiently.

We had an old stick welder, the main issue is as you said that needs lots of practice, plus new rods all the time as we can't keep them dry with such infrequent use, and can’t really handle the thin work we need, hence why we are considering mig - buying two welders puts the cost up again - guess we are not the first to come across this problem

Julie & Tony

 

[Robotstar5]

We expected it to be a bit on/off but this is much lower than we thought!

1.5 mins in every 10 may sound low, but remember there is a lot of prep, fitting up, checking and moving around when welding. Also with a travel speed of 10mm/sec that's 900mm of continuous weld!