Need to have these remade but where?

[RonA]

Ron they are going to be brittle they will have work\heat hardened over years at least anneal better still replace what motor is it

Its the 34 Wolesley Hornet special Im restoring (as picture left), its a 1275 cc 6 cylinder OHC engine. As mentioned elsewhere the pipes are very old.
RonA

 

[500e]

We have a steam boiler lady in Burnham on Sea near us she is very good, say Richard suggested her.
http://www.westernsteam.com/

 

[Rig Pig]

You need to borrow a set of instrument tube benders in whatever OD your pipe is.

 

[130]

I would:
1) Pressure test pipes, no point fixing a non problem.
2) Consider steam clean, flux inside and fill with solder then melt it out

 

[mcostello]

Local hydraulic hose maker does that type of work 'round here.

 

[Gritineye]

I built up a Rover 4.6 V8 that's in the garage waiting to be fitted to my sons Landy. I filled the pump with grease, I recalled from many years ago a mate rebuilt a 3.5 V8 & would not raise oil pressure & that was the advice the dealer gave.

Not only fill the pump with vaseline but spin it up with a drill down the dizzy hole to raise pressure before starting if it's stood for a long time.

 

[Wallace]

Not only fill the pump with vaseline but spin it up with a drill down the dizzy hole to raise pressure before starting if it's stood for a long time.

Depends if it has a dizzy, later 4.6 Rover engines have a trochoid oil pump on the crank nose.

 

[Gritineye]

Depends if it has a dizzy, later 4.6 Rover engines have a trochoid oil pump on the crank nose.

Showing my age there...

 

[500e]

The last thing I built\rebuilt before giving up car work was a Riley9 trials car.
Never crossed my mind to take photo's of the cars we did

 

[ibrooks]

I've got two cheapanese versions of the bender shown above and they work surprisingly well - whether the 13mm one would be a tight enough radius for the pipes in your pictures though would be debatable.

So long as a pipe can't expand sideways you can make a serious bend so a thick "washer" with a profiled groove around the edge will allow the bend and should be fairly simple to make on a lathe - for a limited use make it from a bit of hardwood but thicker to that it can't split. A flat piece with a mating groove will allow you to draw the pipe around your form without kinking it outside it.

Do the pipes "need" to be the shapes shown so long as they go from A to B could a simpler shape do the job?

I did think flexible pipe so that you just need to make stubs with the right fittings for the engine/pump on one end and a bead to prevent a flexi pipe from coming adrift but you say that oil is sucked through these so that probably wouldn't be suitable as a flexible pipe would be liable to collapsing.

 

[Cobbler]

Depends if it has a dizzy, later 4.6 Rover engines have a trochoid oil pump on the crank nose.

As you say, no dizzy on this one, oil pump on the end of the crank.

 

[500e]

The lower one looks to be fairly simple, the U bend is the fiddly one but hardwood former & Cerobend (thanks @Pete.) should make it relatively straightforward.
I personalty would replace them, if the new pipe is annealed you would be surprised how easily it will bend
I would suspect soft soldered with a highish lead content not a modern non lead product,
If silver soldered you will soon find out when heat applied to remove fittings Helen will suggest correct SS to use, here is a link to SS use, a map gas torch will do what you want
As @ibrooks said do they need to be exactly that shape
http://www.richard-whitehouse.co.uk/soldering notes.pdf

 

[RonA]

I've got two cheapanese versions of the bender shown above and they work surprisingly well - whether the 13mm one would be a tight enough radius for the pipes in your pictures though would be debatable.

So long as a pipe can't expand sideways you can make a serious bend so a thick "washer" with a profiled groove around the edge will allow the bend and should be fairly simple to make on a lathe - for a limited use make it from a bit of hardwood but thicker to that it can't split. A flat piece with a mating groove will allow you to draw the pipe around your form without kinking it outside it.

Do the pipes "need" to be the shapes shown so long as they go from A to B could a simpler shape do the job?

I did think flexible pipe so that you just need to make stubs with the right fittings for the engine/pump on one end and a bead to prevent a flexi pipe from coming adrift but you say that oil is sucked through these so that probably wouldn't be suitable as a flexible pipe would be liable to collapsing.

Sadly the pipes need to be the shape they are to clear other gear on the engine.
Off to see a model steam engineer this pm to see if he can add anything to the problem.
RonA

 

[RonA]

Talked with my local model steam enthusiasts this afternoon.
They seemed to be confident having annealed the copper pipe & made an exact former to match the tube bends, the pipe would bend ok without the pipe collapsing even without filling it with sand or propriety anti collapse compund.
For the 90 degree conical male pipe end which mates with the oil pimp inlet, the suggestion was to make up a replica fitting in brass & then solder it to the pipe end, something I can try on the lathe before bending new tube.
RonA

 

[merryman]

The conical end fittings look like those made by a Bundy tube flaring tool. One of the sizes nobody uses in an imperial set will probably be what the coppersmiths used to make them originally.

 

[500e]

@merryman I think it is more a 75Deg than 45 but the Bundy tool would be a good start on smaller pipe but it is 1\2 Inch
A circular die to fit pipe then a couple of formers to swage the end, the back die in 2 parts to facilitate fitting removal, spread it slowly with plenty of annealing needs to be fairly thick wall pipe to give some thickness in flange after stretching, they tend to crack at the base of the flair, when finished \ bent anneal whole pipe before soldering or SS
I like the idea if making replica fitting in brass & then solder it to the pipe end

 

[Nomad]

Hi Ron,
If you've not already been, I'd suggest you have a visit to "North East Restoration Club" just up the road at Washington.

They have a lot of experienced members and a well set up workshop that's free to use, shame they can't put together a decent website ! They have a facebook page (I don't), or for address see http://nerclub.tripod.com/
I am / was a member, very cheap (£30 a year ?), well worth visiting (take the pipes with you and ask)

Saturday is often a good time to find it busy with lots of folk around.

cheers,
Pete

 

[merryman]

the Bundy tool would be a good start on smaller pipe but it is 1\2 Inch

Bundy flaring tools come in sets, for some reason they go up to about 15mm or 3/4" on imperial sets. I never found a use for the big ones, which is why I wrote "One of the sizes nobody uses" in my posting. Annealed copper won't split, it is very soft.

 

[Cobbler]

Bundy flaring tools come in sets, for some reason they go up to about 15mm or 3/4" on imperial sets. I never found a use for the big ones, which is why I wrote "One of the sizes nobody uses" in my posting. Annealed copper won't split, it is very soft.

Back in the late 60's early 70's I worked for the plumbing side of a builders merchant. We sold those flaring tools for 3/8" soft copper oil line tubing as they used flare fittings, they were also used for 1/2" soft copper underground water pipe as compression fittings couldn't be used on it. I've still got one in the drawer, just in case.

 

[500e]

Never seen That size when I started there was only Imperial, Yes coper tube anneal'd will not tend to split but you have to have the wall thickness to A. expand B. to have enough metal not to fatigue in use