Need some advise from the pros

[davidjohnperry]

There's alot wrong with my company but I'm not here to discuss this I need to know how many runs a 20mm filet weld is
In my last place where I made and welded massive structures the weld diagram I've been shown is a 18 Fillet weld which I could do with ease with 1.2 mm and 1.4 mm wire my new company only run 1mm and won't increase the size of wire
Can I get away with this drawing or do I need to do 4 runs on top of that to hit the correct weld size

 

[Welderpaul]

The simple answer is it's as many runs as are needed to form a 20mm fillet.

 

[davidjohnperry]

Thats what I've kinda said then this appeared on the beam this morning lol

 

[Munkul]

6 runs at 280 amps (good top end on 1mm) should fill that nicely?

 

[davidjohnperry]

6 runs I was thinking more ten but I'm guessing it doesn't matter as long as its filled and hits the 20mm 20mm fillet size

 

[Barking Mat]

I'm no pro, but I like to go for bombproof.

More than you probably need, that way you can be fairly confident your welds won't fail.

I've in a recent project got to the point you're adding beads for the hell of it.

I recently sat under a bridge, and was looking at the welding thinking, only that much weld / reinforcements.

 

[davidjohnperry]

Yeah that's great and all but to much weld reinforcement makes it weaker from my understanding everything has stress risers calculated by more clever people then me who work out heat Imput and all that and come out with a weld size for that job problem is because this job is kinda beyond the scope of our company I've had to help prove what I know to be true to weld the job and get them the data but now because of a 3mm gap one side because of the kerf of the pug instead of it being 15 and 8 in the Web which with 1mm wire I can only get 7mm welds in 1 pass I usually do them in 3 runs anyway and hit 9mm I now have to hit a 12mm fillet weld over a rough meter of weld and now instead of 15mm filet welds I've now got to hit 20mm welds which is fine but the jobs got deadlines and it's going to take me longer because 1mm plus preheat is to slow because anything above combined thickness of material the wps specs 50 degree preheat as my last place we proved 90mm combined thickness and below with out preheat. I even passed the new weld test without preheat with 1mm wire sadly the pressure ends up on me because the other welder actually can't weld anything except railing and that's if he turns up

 

[Mid Wales welder]

I'm no pro, but I like to go for bombproof.

More than you probably need, that way you can be fairly confident your welds won't fail.

I've in a recent project got to the point you're adding beads for the hell of it.

I recently sat under a bridge, and was looking at the welding thinking, only that much weld / reinforcements.

Too much weld is unacceptable to all the specs I know of when dealing with structural and bridges etc. Excess amounts are specified along with all other weld imperfections.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Yeah that's great and all but to much weld reinforcement makes it weaker from my understanding everything has stress risers calculated by more clever people then me who work out heat Imput and all that and come out with a weld size for that job problem is because this job is kinda beyond the scope of our company I've had to help prove what I know to be true to weld the job and get them the data but now because of a 3mm gap one side because of the kerf of the pug instead of it being 15 and 8 in the Web which with 1mm wire I can only get 7mm welds in 1 pass I usually do them in 3 runs anyway and hit 9mm I now have to hit a 12mm fillet weld over a rough meter of weld and now instead of 15mm filet welds I've now got to hit 20mm welds which is fine but the jobs got deadlines and it's going to take me longer because 1mm plus preheat is to slow because anything above combined thickness of material the wps specs 50 degree preheat as my last place we proved 90mm combined thickness and below with out preheat. I even passed the new weld test without preheat with 1mm wire sadly the pressure ends up on me because the other welder actually can't weld anything except railing and that's if he turns up

What does your RWC say? Are we talking carbon steel S355? EN1011 gives guidance on pre heat temps etc.
Also, depending on procedure you should be aloud to change wire diameter as long as it doesn’t take you outside the specified heat input range of the WPQR, just need to write a new WPS.

 

[bourbon]

Not to stir anything up. But what do the design specifications say? The person who wrote them should be the person who tells you what to do, not the other way around. I hate the phrase, but in this instance, 'It's not my job' should be used.

 

[davidjohnperry]

I helped write the procedures for this job but I passed it without pre heat he rang me and asked me to follow a procedure he's not given me and as he now has covid I doubt I will see him I'm just trying to follow it to how I had it set on the test peice and with 50 degree pre heat butttt I've only ever had a procedures for 12 mm filets nothing bigger I'm only following what I used to do in my old company although I'm never going to get 300 Amps out of 1mm wire sadly

 

[davidjohnperry]

Problem is tests are pretty much you can get perfect gun angle perfect contact distance as when welding it's pretty difficult to keep everything perfectn

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Not to stir anything up. But what do the design specifications say? The person who wrote them should be the person who tells you what to do, not the other way around. I hate the phrase, but in this instance, 'It's not my job' should be used.

Engineer / designer would give the spec that it’s made to (EN1090 for example) which then gives the acceptance requirements and also the weld size. The manufacturer then follows their weld procedures in terms of settings etc, but as for the amount of runs it’s really just down to the welder.
If it says 20mm leg fillet and the welder puts down 18mm, then they just put another layer (this could be multiple runs more) to make it up to 20mm. In this case 20mm would be the minimum required and would then have a tolerance allowed over that.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

I helped write the procedures for this job but I passed it without pre heat he rang me and asked me to follow a procedure he's not given me and as he now has covid I doubt I will see him I'm just trying to follow it to how I had it set on the test peice and with 50 degree pre heat butttt I've only ever had a procedures for 12 mm filets nothing bigger I'm only following what I used to do in my old company although I'm never going to get 300 Amps out of 1mm wire sadly

Best bet if your not sure is to just set up a quick sample, put a 20mm fillet on and see how many runs it takes.
Pre heat will depend on material CEV and EN1011 / client spec. What’s the thickness?
300 amps with 1mm wire is pushing it anyway, what’s on your as run WPQR?

 

[davidjohnperry]

Sorry matey that was not clear I'm used to 1.2 and 1.4 mm wires where I can run those sort of Amps I passed the test on 40mm plate with no pre heat at around 275 amps for the wrc to produce a weld procedure for the job he's spec pre heat I'm going on the base of 50.degree minimum having lots of problems in all fairness I've just had enough of welding currently I don't get paid enough and the enjoyment has truly gone.
I haven't seem a wps since I've been there I get a load of flaf and wind but no papers