My turn for a favour. :(

[ukracer]

Hi peeps its not often I come a begging!

But in a few days time the ENGLISH fire service will be on strike for 4 days solid. The last strike like this was in 77 the year I joined.

One of the lads sums it up into a few paragraphs...so please read the post, make your own minds up and try and be part of the solution.

Here is a link to copy the letter from.

http://www.fbu.org.uk/news/2014/10/pensions-lobby-mp/

http://www.fbu.org.uk/resources/pension-lobby-mp-pro-forma-letter/

One reason why I have posted in here is its often a shed fire we end up going to and if its not saving a life its saving the tools we treasure so much as hobbyists.


News Feed

Save the UK Fire Service
1 hr ·
DON'T BLAME THE FIREFIGHTERS.

Firefighters have always had a service specific pension scheme that took account of their job requirements.
Now the government are moving the goalposts and requiring them to work beyond an age where they can remain match fit.
What seems a good deal for the government is not a good deal for the public as in outcome it will affect firefighter's ability to carry out the role the public want.
Don't blame the firefighters - it is an intransigent government intent on reducing public services that are to blame.
Firefighters may appear to be solely protecting their conditions of service, but that is a simplistic view as they are also protecting us and the level of service they currently provide.
If only their senior managers would speak out in support then this may prevent strike action because then the whole fire service would join with the majority of the public in the call for the LibDem supported Tory government to listen to firefighter's arguments.


Thanks in advance.

Regards Andy T

 

[ajlelectronics]

That is a real can of worms and likely to get very heated, pardoning the pun. I am sure you feel entirely justified, however, my personal opinion is that NO MEMBER OF THE EMERGENCY SERVICES should be allowed to withdraw their labour.

 

[ukracer]

That is a real can of worms and likely to get very heated, pardoning the pun. I am sure you feel entirely justified, however, my personal opinion is that NO MEMBER OF THE EMERGENCY SERVICES should be allowed to withdraw their labour.

Withdrawing their labour is not an issue AFAIAC. This is an attempt to get pressure on an lunatic government so that withdrawing labour is not needed.

Its sad the first reply has not addressed any of the points raised above

What I would ask, as I am all for free speech, is we keep it cordial, factual and if you could suggest an alternative that would be great!

Regards Andy T

 

[tomsutton529]

Hi peeps its not often I come a begging!

But in a few days time the ENGLISH fire service will be on strike for 4 days solid. The last strike like this was in 77 the year I joined.

One of the lads sums it up into a few paragraphs...so please read the post, make your own minds up and try and be part of the solution.

Here is a link to copy the letter from.
http://www.fbu.org.uk/resources/pension-lobby-mp-pro-forma-letter/

One reason why I have posted in here is its often a shed fire we end up going to and if its not saving a life its saving the tools we treasure so much as hobbyists.


News Feed

Save the UK Fire Service
1 hr ·
DON'T BLAME THE FIREFIGHTERS.

Firefighters have always had a service specific pension scheme that took account of their job requirements.
Now the government are moving the goalposts and requiring them to work beyond an age where they can remain match fit.
What seems a good deal for the government is not a good deal for the public as in outcome it will affect firefighter's ability to carry out the role the public want.
Don't blame the firefighters - it is an intransigent government intent on reducing public services that are to blame.
Firefighters may appear to be solely protecting their conditions of service, but that is a simplistic view as they are also protecting us and the level of service they currently provide.
If only their senior managers would speak out in support then this may prevent strike action because then the whole fire service would join with the majority of the public in the call for the LibDem supported Tory government to listen to firefighter's arguments.


Thanks in advance.

Regards Andy T

If it is OFTEN a shed fire then why not send all the older fellows to that one and leave the young ones to run 30 flights of stairs??? You have made a bad argument right there...

However.. I do agree that the once any member of the emergency services reaches their peak they should move into an admin role if a position can be found, would a good solution not be further training in an office based role and have more expertise on the phones or making the calls as where to send resources, surely the years of experience in the job would be worth its weight in gold... In a previous life I made the Air Supplied gear for firefighters and me being 27 I struggled to get it on in under half an hour and was unable to run ( more like walk quickly) any more than 1 lap of the site, so I feel greatly for those that are going to be forced to work when they have peaked..

 

[the snooper]

its simple you can't expect an aging fire fighter to be fit enough to carry people out of burning buildings with full BA on and not put both people at risk, its common sence

 

[the snooper]

If it is OFTEN a shed fire then why not send all the older fellows to that one and leave the young ones to run 30 flights of stairs??? You have made a bad argument right there...

you cant retain an aging crew on the off chance that they wont encounter people at risk of death

 

[ukracer]

If it is OFTEN a shed fire then why not send all the older fellows to that one and leave the young ones to run 30 flights of stairs??? You have made a bad argument right there...

Ok this is brilliant. You are making the same mistake the government are doing. Its NOT possible to position older firefighters to attend easier fires, logistics will not allow it. A shed fire has its own inherent dangers such as cylinders etc. Even grass fires can turn dangerous as we see on the news. Also we used to have 5 on an appliance to achieve safe systems of work but now they are riding with 3....need I say more?

However.. I do agree that the once any member of the emergency services reaches their peak they should move into an admin role if a position can be found,

They cant. There are so many less positions available since the cuts. Even the Local Authority conceded this point.

would a good solution not be further training in an office based role and have more expertise on the phones or making the calls as where to send resources, surely the years of experience in the job would be worth its weight in gold..

Awesome...another government mistake. yes it is invaluable but we already have that expertise they are cutting to the bone and loosing it with regional controls.

. In a previous life I made the Air Supplied gear for firefighters and me being 27 I struggled to get it on in under half an hour and was unable to run ( more like walk quickly) any more than 1 lap of the site, so I feel greatly for those that are going to be forced to work when they have peaked..

We get BA on inside 60 seconds and 56 laps was the record up/across/down and across and back up the station ground and first floor.

I know as I counted them and we had 8 appliances all with 5 riders and NOT ONE set failed although we had 5 failures (total loss of air) in the previous month at incident so we were testing them until empty to see if we could replicate these failures.

To be honest its not the fact they will have peaked BUT the government steal 50% of their pension is they get kicked out on ill health and over 95% will be...the Local Authority concede this also. HOWEVER the most important facts
are the public will be put at risk when firefighters try to squeeze ever last minute in the service they can possibly manage.

 

[julianthegypsy]

I for one am with the firefighters. Raising the working age from 55 to 60 when they have to pass a strict medical is just a way of getting rid of people who have given years of service without paying them and its a disgrace. Rant over.

 

[ukracer]

I for one am with the firefighters. Raising the working age from 55 to 60 when they have to pass a strict medical is just a way of getting rid of people who have given years of service without paying them and its a disgrace. Rant over.

Oh they will pay but only half of the pension we should get. Unless we get sacked on capability , in which case we have to wait until 67 or 68 whatever the old age pension age is then. For those who are not aware we pay close to 400 per month towards the pension now.

 

[DanielW]

/puts hand in the air

A soldier in the army has to be fit for duty and is no good to the MOD if they have not made it up the ladder in rank.
Not many admin jobs are available for a middle aged firefighter so they have to be retired in my opinoin.

 

[Fergus]

I don't think the general public have any concept of how close they are getting to having emergency services provided by the lowest bidder, my colleagues are leaving in droves, many to do something completely different, personally I'm not far off either. I'm currently looking at retirement of nearly 70 and potentially will be humping patients up and down stairs until that day, assuming I haven't been crippled or broken in some other way by then.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I'm not a fan of striking as I think that's a large contributor to why this country is in such a mess (i.e if the miners had just got on with their work rather than demanding more etc) but I must admit that, from what is posted on here, the situation for firefighters is just plain wrong.

 

[ukracer]

I'm not a fan of striking as I think that's a large contributor to why this country is in such a mess (i.e if the miners had just got on with their work rather than demanding more etc) but I must admit that, from what is posted on here, the situation for firefighters is just plain wrong.

http://www.fbu.org.uk/news/2014/10/pensions-lobby-mp/

This explain it in concise terms. Believe it or not most firefighters are not a fan of strikes BUT there reaches a point. Its Cameron and Osborne who have stepped in and said NO concessions as the other three parts of the UK Scotland , Ireland and Wales have accepted its unworkable and are offering improvements so they are NOT striking in those areas this weekend.

THIS is from a man who refuses to pay the EU its 1/7 billion and wants concessions..............amazing really.

 

[ukracer]

I don't think the general public have any concept of how close they are getting to having emergency services provided by the lowest bidder, my colleagues are leaving in droves, many to do something completely different, personally I'm not far off either. I'm currently looking at retirement of nearly 70 and potentially will be humping patients up and down stairs until that day, assuming I haven't been crippled or broken in some other way by then.

I don't think the general public have any concept of how close they are getting to having emergency services provided by the lowest bidder, my colleagues are leaving in droves, many to do something completely different, personally I'm not far off either. I'm currently looking at retirement of nearly 70 and potentially will be humping patients up and down stairs until that day, assuming I haven't been crippled or broken in some other way by then.

Fergus you are so right. There is no point in having these type of jobs with no decent return at the end......its all about the ConDems setting up the fire service for privatisation and they need to force people to leave the pension.

As you rightly point out retirement ages are there for a reason. MP's are getting an 11% rise in their salarys and improved pension arrangements, all of this is wrong but putting the public in so much danger is immoral.

What is the suggestion by many around the problem....get promoted/become a manager....services are top heavy already, it would not take many to capsize the sinking ship...

 

[striker]

All fires start small...if the crew cannot respond quickly and efficiently the fire escalates and can spread and become a life risk, Also does the general public (who pay their council tax for a quality service) really want 60yr olds turning up to a persons reported when every second counts?

 

[brightspark]

[quote="ukracer, post: 569475, member:
What is the suggestion by many around the problem....get promoted/become a manager....services are top heavy already, it would not take many to capsize the sinking ship...[/quote]take the pension and get a job at b and q or be a security guard like everyone else does and make do . im 60 and flog my **** off and dont make 29 grand a year and havent got a pension. give it a rest. my wifes worked for the councill for 30 years and been sh..it on and has had to take a pay reduction like everyone else and s,,hit pension

 

[ukracer]

[quote="ukracer, post: 569475, member:
What is the suggestion by many around the problem....get promoted/become a manager....services are top heavy already, it would not take many to capsize the sinking ship...

take the pension and get a job at b and q or be a security guard like everyone else does and make do . im 60 and flog my **** off and dont make 29 grand a year and havent got a pension. give it a rest. my wifes worked for the councill for 30 years and been sh..it on and has had to take a pay reduction like everyone else and s,,hit pension

You are of course entitled to your opinion but you are ignoring the points raised and just going on the basis that we should all be driven to the lowest level. I realise you have not got a pension BUT were you "forced" to join one when you started work at 18, we were and then they change the scheme. This is all PART of our arguments. Its like you taking out a mortgage for 300 quid over 25 years and when you reach 20 years they extend the term to 35 year and increase the fees by 100 quid to £400 a month for the rest of the term....I bet you would not be happy!

Regards Andy T

 

[striker]

No Andy its not like that at all, its more like increasing the payments to £400 AND increasing the term.

 

[striker]

Sorry Any just reread your post....you did make that point.

 

[brightspark]

take the pension and get a job at b and q or be a security guard like everyone else does and make do . im 60 and flog my **** off and dont make 29 grand a year and havent got a pension. give it a rest. my wifes worked for the councill for 30 years and been sh..it on and has had to take a pay reduction like everyone else and s,,hit pension

You are of course entitled to your opinion but you are ignoring the points raised and just going on the basis that we should all be driven to the lowest level. I realise you have not got a pension BUT were you "forced" to join one when you started work at 18, we were and then they change the scheme. This is all PART of our arguments. Its like you taking out a mortgage for 300 quid over 25 years and when you reach 20 years they extend the term to 35 year and increase the fees by 100 quid to £400 a month for the rest of the term....I bet you would not be happy!

Regards Andy T[/quote]i wish i did have one where the employer paid half in to it. i was on crap pay and gaffer paid nowt . your best taking your point elswhere .the forum isnt the place to debate politics . give it a rest