My first real welding project Dis-Astra 2

[BIGMIKE]

Well Ive been lurking around on here for a while and since buying my clarke 150te Ive pigeon s**tted a few bits of scrap together, made a little stand for the dog bowls and sort of think Iam geting the hang of it. So ive recently bought a 1993 Astra convertible for a charity banger rally accross europe, we did another a couple of years ago in a mk2 astra convertible so thought we'd go up in the world this year and managed to get a mk3. It has no tax,no mot,non runner and its a write off! Basically an ideal place to practice my skills. The outer sill had a few small holes but as usual the more i poaked the more fell off The inner sill edge and part or the inner wheel arch also crumbled away. Ive been making cardboard templates and cutting up an old filing cabinet for some of the metal and using some 2mm plate on other parts of the sill were I thought a bit more strength would help. Iam not expecting any of it to end up perfect but thought might aswell have a bash and wanted to try fabricating repair panels from scrap.
I'd like any comments good or bad, like I said I think Iam getting the hang of adjusting power and wire speed to suit, but I can't seem to get my welds consitent some I think turn out well then some end up spattering and blobbing! I think part of this could be down to prep but Iam not sure. I think I should also have a go at putting lines down on thick scrap like in the tutorial as I never really bothered and think that might be why some of my welds look quite tall.
The repair panel I made for the rear quarter/inner wheel arch isn't finished yet it's just covered in primer to stop it going rusty, I need to do some filling and sanding on that The 2 plates I grinded down the welds and have just undersealed the entire sill and they're not really noticeable. Even did a bit of dent removal on the rear bumper with the hot air gun, it really wants a boot lid,rear panel and quarter panel either replacing or repairing as they've moved but for what we'll be using it for it wont matter. Ive still got quite a bit more to do behind the rear bumper but its getting there and Iam having fun plus hopefully improving. By the way its a clarke 150te,0.6mm wire and pub gas that Iam using. I must add really learnt a lot from this forum very useful site. I also have an old Dutton Sierra kit car sat in the garage that Iam hoping to respray this year so again the paint section will come in handy.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Not looking too bad at all mike!
The welds along the bottom look, as you say, a bit tall but they've ground down ok and look like they've done the job.
Regarding the inconsistency, could be down to a number of things, technique, a breeze blowing your gas away (though there's no sign of porosity), insufficient cleaning etc., more practice will probably sort that out for you.
One thing I would say is that I'd have done the two close together rust patches with one plate, I reckon you'll have to add another to bridge the gap at some point.

 

[Country Joe]

I read through all that, and expected to see some really rough looking efforts, but that's pretty damned good, especially as you're starting out on the notoriously thin and rusty sill sections!
As Wozz says, those two close ones could maybe have been done as one larger patch, but that's good & neat, no pinholes to be seen, and I imagine would easily pass MOT style scrutiny.
My only words of warning would be "Carry on like that & you'll make it look too easy! "
Good on ya!
CJ

 

[BIGMIKE]

Cheers Woz, I know I thought after I should have done it as one plate, but the 2 plates were initially smaller then I cut them bigger Depending on how it performs on the banger rally it might get scrapped before it has time to rust anymore anyway!
I think prep is definately part of my problem on rusty metal,but suppose a lot is practice makes perfect. Ive still got quite a bit to do behing the rear bumper, I know it has nothing to do with mot but thought gives me a good excuse to have a play at forming some repair panels and welding them up

 

[Grrrmachine]

Those Astras weren't made from the best quality metal, so good on you for having a go at trying to patch up that thin steel. Joining 2mm plate to it must have resulted in quite a few holes blown, no?

 

[BIGMIKE]

Those Astras weren't made from the best quality metal, so good on you for having a go at trying to patch up that thin steel. Joining 2mm plate to it must have resulted in quite a few holes blown, no?

It wasn't to bad as I welded the 2mm plate to some of the new 1.2mm stuff rather than my filing cabinet steel and it was also welded to some quite thick steel in the inner wheel arch/inner sill area. It should be ok for the mot just need to get bit neater and more consistent with it really, hopefully I'll get chance to start on the bit behind the bumper this week but some of that is pretty rotten the inner panel that the quarter skin should have joined to has crumbled away, so should be fun. I think I'll go back to basics first and lay some lines just to practice so I don't keeping getting really tall welds.

 

[oz.]

Cleaning back the paint a little further would help.

You can see in this one where the paint has reacted -

Ideally you don't want any of this so I usually strip 1"-1.5" away from the weld as minimum. More if the paint colour doesn't matter.

 

[Wedg1e]

Funny thiing about banger rallies... we did Home 2 Rome in '09 and one guy loved the Audi Coupe we used that much that he drove the damn thing all the way back again (by himself, we flew back ) instead of scrapping it as was the plan!

Dutton Sierrra... I remember that being launched! One of my dad's customers had lost an arm in a works accident and wanted to have a disabled-friendly kit car built. He ended up with a Merlin TF as it was the nicest all-round kit at the time, lots classier than things like the Dutton Melos, the Magenta, Marcos etc. Seem to recall the Dutton Sierra was an Escort-based 4x4-alike (bit like the Matra Rancho but probably lasted longer) - Ford sued Dutton for trademark infringement over the Sierra name but as I recall they lost because Duttons version wasn't similar enough to be a threat. Ludicrous.
I always fancied a GP Talon but not sure I could have lived with that asthmatic flat-4 wheezing away at the back - now a Rover V8...

 

[BIGMIKE]

Home to Rome is the one we're doing this year, last time we did Scally Rally to Rimini. We drove that home the long way and ended up doing 3650miles in 10days which wasn't bad considering a few weeks earlier it was rusting away on an old ladys drive!

Dutton sierra is mk1 escort based and looks similar to 4x4, I bought it as a cheap project,only paid £80 sold the seats for £60 plus its tax exempt and £150 full comp to insure. Just use it for tip runs and taking dog to the park etc

 

[Shox Dr]

Dutton Sierrra... I remember that being launched! One of my dad's customers had lost an arm in a works accident and wanted to have a disabled-friendly kit car built. He ended up with a Merlin TF as it was the nicest all-round kit at the time, lots classier than things like the Dutton Melos, the Magenta, Marcos etc. Seem to recall the Dutton Sierra was an Escort-based 4x4-alike (bit like the Matra Rancho but probably lasted longer) - Ford sued Dutton for trademark infringement over the Sierra name but as I recall they lost because Duttons version wasn't similar enough to be a threat. Ludicrous.
I always fancied a GP Talon but not sure I could have lived with that asthmatic flat-4 wheezing away at the back - now a Rover V8...

I built a Dutton Phaeton when I was 18, I wouldn't like to drive one now, little more than a few bits of 1"Sq box badly stuck together, I remember having to reweld some stuff it was that bad.

As you say Ford tried to sue, for the Sierra name, however Tim Dutton won, or they dropped the action as the name was more akin to a 4x4 than a jelly mold

 

[Wedg1e]

I built a Dutton Phaeton when I was 18, I wouldn't like to drive one now, little more than a few bits of 1"Sq box badly stuck together, I remember having to reweld some stuff it was that bad.

As you say Ford tried to sue, for the Sierra name, however Tim Dutton won, or they dropped the action as the name was more akin to a 4x4 than a jelly mold

Aye, I only remembered the name of the Phaeton after I'd logged-off last night. Bloody horrid thing, didn't the Sylva Stryker take over from it? Was supposed to take on the Lotus/Caterham/Locost types, but didn't.

When dad's customer was looking for a kit he got brochures from almost every kit maker in the land, it was shocking how badly thought-out some of them were.
The Merlin was almost a complete new car with big box chassis (not as big as the Ginetta car that looked like the Dutton Sierra though) and one-piece GRP shell styled like a Morgan. Used mostly Cortina bits with some Beetle parts and that was part of the attraction, it could be built from fewer donors/ trips to the scrapyard. In case anybody has 'ours' stashed in a barn it was registered as XEF 990Y.
There were the GP buggies and Talon, some thing that I recall looked like an Argo with 4 or 6 wheels, the Beauford, the Magenta, a couple of replicas of stuff like the Stratos and Countach that would have cost almost as much as the real thing by the time you'd done them justice... most people didn't of course, as soon as there were lights and an exhaust the car went for an MOT and that was it, they rarely got finished.

I bet if I looked hard enough the brochures will all still be filed away in my old man's writing bureau, must have a dig sometime

 

[Wedg1e]

Home to Rome is the one we're doing this year, last time we did Scally Rally to Rimini.

We swore we'd never do another after the antics of the so-called organisers. They treated the whole thing as a big p155-up, all the planned events failed to materialise. One fat bloke who was with them started playing the big man from the second we walked in; turned out he was a hanger-on mate of the real organisers, full of ****. He was bragging about how they'd be following us in a brand-new Mustang, for which of course we'd all paid the fuel bill with our entrance fee.

Oh how we laughed when they got nicked and fined by the French plod... for not having a GB sticker Remind them when you meet them, I'm sure they'll have put the fees up to cover it.

Now we stick to organising our own trips and save the unnecessary costs of someone else's beano.

 

[pedrobedro]

The Dutton Sierra was released in 1977 years before the Ford Sierra, it was Dutton who sued Ford wasn't it?

 

[Wedg1e]

The Dutton Sierra was released in 1977 years before the Ford Sierra, it was Dutton who sued Ford wasn't it?

OK, it's Wikipedia so who knows what's accurate, but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutton_Cars

"In 1979 Dutton announced the Dutton Sierra, an Escort-based estate car with off-road looks. In 1982, the Ford Motor Company decided to use the Sierra name for a new model, and claimed sole rights. A court case resulted and Dutton won the right to continue with the name on kit cars as the judge ruled that these were a separate category from assembled cars. Dutton was awarded costs against Ford and gained immense publicity. The Sierra is claimed to be the biggest selling kit car ever. "

Doesn't say who sued whom, I always understood it was Ford. Either way, I'm sure that when we built the Merlin in early '82 the Sierra kit was still a recent release ('80 according to the Wiki).

Here's a page dedicated to the Merlin.,..

http://www.merlinoc.org.uk/history.htm

 

[BIGMIKE]

The sierra kits were made between 1980 and 1989, there were 3 series of it(small differences), and a drop head convertible version. All getting pretty rare as are all Duttons due to people buying them cheap scrapping the cars for escort parts and selling the V5's so people can register new kitcars as the dutton and avoid all the hassle of the new kit car registration process. A lot of the early dutton chassis were bad, not even square, mines had quite a bit of new larger box section welded in before I bought it and the sierra chassis are more robust to start with.
I had quite a few kit cars over the last few years, Robin hood,couple of duttons,NCF,westfield,TVR(might aswell be a kitcar) and the westfield was far the best quality but usual thing you get what you pay for! Duttons are cheap fun!

Bit annoying wedg1e about H2R, we did get p155ed off with the organisers of Scally at first, but in the end we had a laugh, but there route was the same this year and we thought H2R was one of the biggest an should be good plus a different route.
Mike

 

[Wedg1e]

The sierra kits were made between 1980 and 1989, there were 3 series of it(small differences), and a drop head convertible version. All getting pretty rare as are all Duttons due to people buying them cheap scrapping the cars for escort parts and selling the V5's so people can register new kitcars as the dutton and avoid all the hassle of the new kit car registration process. A lot of the early dutton chassis were bad, not even square, mines had quite a bit of new larger box section welded in before I bought it and the sierra chassis are more robust to start with.
I had quite a few kit cars over the last few years, Robin hood,couple of duttons,NCF,westfield,TVR(might aswell be a kitcar) and the westfield was far the best quality but usual thing you get what you pay for! Duttons are cheap fun!

Bit annoying wedg1e about H2R, we did get p155ed off with the organisers of Scally at first, but in the end we had a laugh, but there route was the same this year and we thought H2R was one of the biggest an should be good plus a different route.
Mike

I think the issue is that they run H2R and the other trips so many times every year that to them it's not exciting any more.


Yes, TVRs are as near as dammit kit cars, as are Lotuses - even Noble use bits of other people's cars! I like my TVR for the reason that I can do everything on it myself (and sometimes better than the factory did it ).

 

[pedrobedro]

(and sometimes better than the factory did it ).

A friend of ours had a Tuscan and the chassis looked like it had been welded with a SIP.