davidjohnperry
a different breed
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Liquid Metal
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First thing, dont use mig filler wire, get yourself some proper tig filler rods probably 1.6mm would be a safe bet for now if the pieces you are practicing on are 3-4mm thick, it will be a lot easier due to them being straight. Cut them in half too to start with. Failing that, put two pieces of mig wire into a cordless drill after straightening them as best you can and twist them around each other.
Looking at the colour of the weld and the steel immediately adjacent to it, it has got too hot. This is usually caused by moving along the joint too slowly. Having too small a filler wont help with this, as you have to turn the amps down and move slowly along the joint to be able to fill it out enough, and this will saturate the steel with heat. If you have a thicker fill wire, you can turn the amps up a bit, and with each dab of the wire you are filling the joint faster and can move along quicker. Try a different technique though. Try forming your puddle, then move it along a little, then add your filler and fill the puddle. Then move along, fill the puddle. Carry on like this along the joint. With this technique you can realy drive the puddle down into the root of the joint, and being able too see the front edge of the puddle you know you have penetrated right into the joint.
Another thing which you might need to do is hold a shorter arc. This will help to focus the pool into the root of the joint. Also helps with heat input. At a guess I would say looking at the two pictures you have been holding quite a long arc. Whatever diameter tungsten you are using, try to hold approximately that length arc. Ie 1.6mm tungsten, 1mm to 2mm MAX arc length, the shorter the better. 3.2mm tungsten, 3mm arc.
Get your gas flow about right too. If your regulator has Litres/min scale, go for just under 1.5times the cup size. ie number 4 cup 5-6l/min. number6 cup 8-9 l/min
and so on.
Give the metal a good clean aswell, flap disk on a grinder is a good one for that. You want the steel as clean as you can get it if you are tig welding.
Persevere with it and practise.
With Tig welding there are lots of variables. Which is what can make it very frustrating trying to learn it yourself from scratch without anybody showing you how.
There are lots of videos on youtube, and lots of advice online if you look for it. Read up on what ou can and then put it into practice. Or another option is to find a college local to you that does evening courses and enrol on a course.
Dont get stuck in the illusion that fabrication shops are lovely places to work in though lol the vast majority of them are dirty dusty noisy places full of hazardous machinery and equipment that could very easily remove appendages such as fingers or hands. They are also full of people singing along way out of tune with the radio at the top of their lungs, and some are full of people playing all sorts of practical jokes on you all day its a good crack but always has you on your toes.
One thing which will help a hell of a lot though is to remember to get yourself comfortable and relax your arms and shoulders. Might not seem like it, but having relaxed arms and shoulders will help steady your hands. If your arms are tensed up or your shoulders, your hands will wave about and wobble like youve been on the beer lol. Dont hold your breath though. All will seem great, hands nice and steady, steady rhythm, and then you cant hold your breath any longer and have to breath in, weld goes pear shaped. Just breathe normally lol.
Whilst you are practicing though, remember to look after yourself health wise.
Remember you only ever have one pair of eyes so look after them. If you dont have any safety glasses, get some. Wear them all the time too, whether you are grinding or not. Believe me, having to take a trip to A+E to have shards of metal dug out of your eyes with a hypodermic needle is not very nice lol. But if you do get anythin in your eye which wont come out with eye wash, you need to go to hospital asap or it will deffinately get worse.
Welding fumes are no good for you. You dont get a hell of a lot tig welding in comparison to mig or arc welding but there are still fumes, so get yourself some masks and try and keep your head out of the fumes. The same applies to grinding dust, its no good for you and causes all sorts of problems with your lungs.
Argon build up in a poorly vented garage is no good for you, its an asphyxiant which has no smell colour or taste.
Keep your skin covered. Tig welding gives off high levels of InfaRed and UV radiation and will burn your skin within minutes, leaving it looking like you have spent hours in the sun without suncream, i guess you know the problems that that can cause over a period of time.
Get yourself a nice soft pair of gloves if you havent already and wear them both ALL the time. Protects your hands from the IR/UV and also from electric shock from the HF, which will definately wake you up if you feel tired
It might seem easier to feed the wire in with your fingers if you dont wear a glove on that hand, but thats a bad habit to get into despite seeing people doing it on tv programs like american chopper. Just remember, they are trying to look good for the cameras.
Relax and practice. I find it quite theraputic myself. Luckily enough I get to do it all day at work lol Dont have to talk to anybody, people leave me alone and taking into consideration the level of noise in the workshop i work in, while im wearing ear plugs, a bit of peace and quite too.
I always have been a bit of a loner since was a kid lol
Dont know what else to say really as if that really is your first go then youve done a lot better than ive seen people do as a first go including myself lol
Keep it up and you never know where it might lead one day
Looking at the colour of the weld and the steel immediately adjacent to it, it has got too hot. This is usually caused by moving along the joint too slowly. Having too small a filler wont help with this, as you have to turn the amps down and move slowly along the joint to be able to fill it out enough, and this will saturate the steel with heat. If you have a thicker fill wire, you can turn the amps up a bit, and with each dab of the wire you are filling the joint faster and can move along quicker. Try a different technique though. Try forming your puddle, then move it along a little, then add your filler and fill the puddle. Then move along, fill the puddle. Carry on like this along the joint. With this technique you can realy drive the puddle down into the root of the joint, and being able too see the front edge of the puddle you know you have penetrated right into the joint.
Another thing which you might need to do is hold a shorter arc. This will help to focus the pool into the root of the joint. Also helps with heat input. At a guess I would say looking at the two pictures you have been holding quite a long arc. Whatever diameter tungsten you are using, try to hold approximately that length arc. Ie 1.6mm tungsten, 1mm to 2mm MAX arc length, the shorter the better. 3.2mm tungsten, 3mm arc.
Get your gas flow about right too. If your regulator has Litres/min scale, go for just under 1.5times the cup size. ie number 4 cup 5-6l/min. number6 cup 8-9 l/min
and so on.
Give the metal a good clean aswell, flap disk on a grinder is a good one for that. You want the steel as clean as you can get it if you are tig welding.
Persevere with it and practise.
With Tig welding there are lots of variables. Which is what can make it very frustrating trying to learn it yourself from scratch without anybody showing you how.
There are lots of videos on youtube, and lots of advice online if you look for it. Read up on what ou can and then put it into practice. Or another option is to find a college local to you that does evening courses and enrol on a course.
Dont get stuck in the illusion that fabrication shops are lovely places to work in though lol the vast majority of them are dirty dusty noisy places full of hazardous machinery and equipment that could very easily remove appendages such as fingers or hands. They are also full of people singing along way out of tune with the radio at the top of their lungs, and some are full of people playing all sorts of practical jokes on you all day its a good crack but always has you on your toes.
One thing which will help a hell of a lot though is to remember to get yourself comfortable and relax your arms and shoulders. Might not seem like it, but having relaxed arms and shoulders will help steady your hands. If your arms are tensed up or your shoulders, your hands will wave about and wobble like youve been on the beer lol. Dont hold your breath though. All will seem great, hands nice and steady, steady rhythm, and then you cant hold your breath any longer and have to breath in, weld goes pear shaped. Just breathe normally lol.
Whilst you are practicing though, remember to look after yourself health wise.
Remember you only ever have one pair of eyes so look after them. If you dont have any safety glasses, get some. Wear them all the time too, whether you are grinding or not. Believe me, having to take a trip to A+E to have shards of metal dug out of your eyes with a hypodermic needle is not very nice lol. But if you do get anythin in your eye which wont come out with eye wash, you need to go to hospital asap or it will deffinately get worse.
Welding fumes are no good for you. You dont get a hell of a lot tig welding in comparison to mig or arc welding but there are still fumes, so get yourself some masks and try and keep your head out of the fumes. The same applies to grinding dust, its no good for you and causes all sorts of problems with your lungs.
Argon build up in a poorly vented garage is no good for you, its an asphyxiant which has no smell colour or taste.
Keep your skin covered. Tig welding gives off high levels of InfaRed and UV radiation and will burn your skin within minutes, leaving it looking like you have spent hours in the sun without suncream, i guess you know the problems that that can cause over a period of time.
Get yourself a nice soft pair of gloves if you havent already and wear them both ALL the time. Protects your hands from the IR/UV and also from electric shock from the HF, which will definately wake you up if you feel tired
It might seem easier to feed the wire in with your fingers if you dont wear a glove on that hand, but thats a bad habit to get into despite seeing people doing it on tv programs like american chopper. Just remember, they are trying to look good for the cameras.Relax and practice. I find it quite theraputic myself. Luckily enough I get to do it all day at work lol Dont have to talk to anybody, people leave me alone and taking into consideration the level of noise in the workshop i work in, while im wearing ear plugs, a bit of peace and quite too.
I always have been a bit of a loner since was a kid lol
Dont know what else to say really as if that really is your first go then youve done a lot better than ive seen people do as a first go including myself lol
Keep it up and you never know where it might lead one day
BrokenBiker
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Dont know what else to say really
is there anything else left to say lol. Very interesting read there liquid, very informative
is there anything else left to say lol. Very interesting read there liquid, very informative
davidjohnperry
a different breed
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wow dude that is inspiring that truly was. i suppose ive done a few practice beads for 5 mins 4 years ago that was it promise this was just my first ever lap and tee fillet but the metal was awlful but being a scrap murchants son i dont get perfect clean metal and i had only little time to set up and have ago.
on my check list i should probably go get my eyes checked for dedbury from years past but on my check list ive got ppe now that i use.
globe arc welding mask for mma/mig welding tacking with built in full view grinding mask
nexus tig gloves
assorted mig gloves or stick
welders cap
leather jacket i always wear/flame retardant overalls
hadaling gloves
and ive recently been using masks for grinding as i want to live a little longer then 28 and ive got various other bits of ppe for other bits of jobs i do as my main job.
but again that was truly amazing gunna buy some gas a few months down the line to ave another go. glad they are ok ish ill improve promise. stick welding tomorrow i think dirty skip lol might mig it if the old man will let me.
might even get a photo haha.
thanks again for the comments ill catch up on some you tube vids later i think thanks again
dave oh and i for got i got a 3m auto darking mask for tig welding and i do use it for other types.
on my check list i should probably go get my eyes checked for dedbury from years past but on my check list ive got ppe now that i use.
globe arc welding mask for mma/mig welding tacking with built in full view grinding mask
nexus tig gloves
assorted mig gloves or stick
welders cap
leather jacket i always wear/flame retardant overalls
hadaling gloves
and ive recently been using masks for grinding as i want to live a little longer then 28 and ive got various other bits of ppe for other bits of jobs i do as my main job.
but again that was truly amazing gunna buy some gas a few months down the line to ave another go. glad they are ok ish ill improve promise. stick welding tomorrow i think dirty skip lol might mig it if the old man will let me.
might even get a photo haha.
thanks again for the comments ill catch up on some you tube vids later i think thanks again
dave oh and i for got i got a 3m auto darking mask for tig welding and i do use it for other types.
davidjohnperry
a different breed
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and as for clean work shops you try working in a scrap yard its not always the nicest to work in and as being a pipefitters mate i come home smelling of boss white most days lush :-D (i actually love the smell of it wife on the other hand has band my work clothes to the conservatory) 
Liquid Metal
Member
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Well if its helped anybody out in anyway then im glad. I hope it didnt come accross like me trying to be a know-all though, as im far from it. Still on a learning curve myself lol.
As far as the ppe youve mentioned its good to see somebody with a bit of common sense using it. I know the health n safety bods can be a bit ott sometimes but at the end of the day we all want to look after our health dont we
As far as the Tigging goes though keep at it and it will fall into place. Keep a nice tight arc length, keep the pool moving and your part way there. If your having trouble feeding the wire, one thing which was suggested to me, was to feed a length of rod/wire through your fingers when your sitting watching tv. Will come in no time that way and while your actually welding you can concentrate on what your doing with the torch that way too.
An evening course really is your best bet or to get somebody who really knows what theyre up to to show you the ropes.
In the mean time though the youtube vids should be helpfull as you can watch and see it rather than somebody trying to describe it.
Hope all goes well when you do,
All the best
As far as the ppe youve mentioned its good to see somebody with a bit of common sense using it. I know the health n safety bods can be a bit ott sometimes but at the end of the day we all want to look after our health dont we
As far as the Tigging goes though keep at it and it will fall into place. Keep a nice tight arc length, keep the pool moving and your part way there. If your having trouble feeding the wire, one thing which was suggested to me, was to feed a length of rod/wire through your fingers when your sitting watching tv. Will come in no time that way and while your actually welding you can concentrate on what your doing with the torch that way too.
An evening course really is your best bet or to get somebody who really knows what theyre up to to show you the ropes.
In the mean time though the youtube vids should be helpfull as you can watch and see it rather than somebody trying to describe it.
Hope all goes well when you do,
All the best
Jan
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I've done it myself, but the urge to blame your tools is just an excuse. Have you seen the beautiful and intricate work that 15th century craftsmen did in wood turning using just a foot powered lathe and a piece of glass as a 'chisel'?
How do you get to Carnegie Hall (as our US cousins ask)? Practice, practice, practice. If it works for you, then go with it. However if you have the talent you can go that bit further. Maybe even 'the whole 9 yards'!
How do you get to Carnegie Hall (as our US cousins ask)? Practice, practice, practice. If it works for you, then go with it. However if you have the talent you can go that bit further. Maybe even 'the whole 9 yards'!
davidjohnperry
a different breed
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I agree jan ive blamed tools before I know its down to the person using them I do what ever I can to learn and develop. One thing I do blame is expensive gas charges I used three desposbles in 15 mins or less untill I can find a cheaper way to learn ill just have to ave a go hear and there with a disposable
Bill Edwards
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If you're going through the disposables at that rate I suggest you check out the BOC Volkzone offer on a decent sized bottle of gas. I think Argon is about £50 per year to rent and not that much to refill, it could soon pay for itself compared to disposables. Bigger cylinders filled with much higher pressures.
davidjohnperry
a different breed
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That sounds brill how do I go about this deal
Bill Edwards
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You call BOC on 0161-930-6234 and ask to be set up on the 'Volkzone' offer for Argon gas. You get a 'Y' sized cylinder.
As of May '13 the prices were:
Refill - £30 excl Vat
Surcharge - £1.92 excl VAT
Yearly Rent - £54 excl VAT
I don't think the prices will have altered much. It's a pretty good deal, especially compared to the normal prices for rental (£100 per year, fills totaling at £84), and the rent free options only half fill the cylinders - and with the cost of carriage it's expensive if you aren't close to an outlet.
BOC have a lot of distributors, you set up an account and collect (assuming you are close to one), if not they can deliver though I don't know what the costs are.
As of May '13 the prices were:
Refill - £30 excl Vat
Surcharge - £1.92 excl VAT
Yearly Rent - £54 excl VAT
I don't think the prices will have altered much. It's a pretty good deal, especially compared to the normal prices for rental (£100 per year, fills totaling at £84), and the rent free options only half fill the cylinders - and with the cost of carriage it's expensive if you aren't close to an outlet.
BOC have a lot of distributors, you set up an account and collect (assuming you are close to one), if not they can deliver though I don't know what the costs are.
Jan
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IIRC I paid around £77 for my first 'Y' sized cylinder of welding gas, including a year's rental. Refills come in at £30 or so regardless of when they are required. The more you use, the more you save. There's an 0800 number on the BOC front page which you can call. Tell them that you want the Volkszone deal and they'll (eventually) sort it out so that you can call in at your nearest outlet to sign the necessary forms and pick up a bottle of gas. I can't speak for delivery costs as I'm so close to mine that they aren't necessary.
