MIG welding Ali

[Richard.]

I've always got on with the right size tip. Never a blip if the rest of the set up is sweet.

 

[Rrunnach]

I've always got on with the right size tip. Never a blip if the rest of the set up is sweet.

Tips specifically for mig al/al, already incoporate

I've always got on with the right size tip. Never a blip if the rest of the set up is sweet.

Even "the right size tip" has clearance!

 

[Richard.]

I know all tips have clearance but for me personally I think the 1.2 is too much. Matter of opinion but I prefer the right size

 

[Rrunnach]

When I order mig al/al tips, 1mm wire, tips come as 1.2 -ish, so they are the right size.

Have you ever noticed the difference between using 1mm V's 1.2mm, weld profile or integrity affected?

 

[Richard.]

Each to there own. I use 1mm tips and DO NOT have issues with it. Feeds great and I do quite a bit from time to time. I know 1.2 works as I know plenty of people that use them. My way of thinking is if I can use the tip as close to the wire dia as possible and it works well then that's got to be the best situation. The day it fails me then I'll make alterations to the set up. Simples.

 

[Rrunnach]

Each to there own. I use 1mm tips and DO NOT have issues with it. Feeds great and I do quite a bit from time to time. I know 1.2 works as I know plenty of people that use them. My way of thinking is if I can use the tip as close to the wire dia as possible and it works well then that's got to be the best situation. The day it fails me then I'll make alterations to the set up. Simples.

Not an answer to my question, which means you don't know if there are differences to weld quality and integrity.

For the record, I have used both and, with al/al mig being a tad fickle, machine dependent, .2 of a mill does make a difference.

 

[doubleboost]

When I order mig al/al tips, 1mm wire, tips come as 1.2 -ish, so they are the right size.

Have you ever noticed the difference between using 1mm V's 1.2mm, weld profile or integrity affected?

Not an answer to my question, which means you don't know if there are differences to weld quality and integrity.

For the record, I have used both and, with al/al mig being a tad fickle, machine dependent, .2 of a mill does make a difference.

Be easier to use the set up the manufacturers recommend
Tip Liner & Rollers all cheap items

 

[Richard.]

The only reason tips .2 of a size bigger are used in Alu welding is because Some people have feed issues when either the wire expands slightly under heat or the wire is deformed by incorrect internals. No other reasons. If those issues ain't present which in some cases they are not then having a closer fit and better contact is better. Weld integrity won't be effected by that .2 difference but I have seen wires with bad cast and helix tolerances and can wonder in an oversized tip. The question I have which I don't think you know the answer to is why if a 1mm tip is working is it not a better solution to ensure the wire is as straight as possible.

 

[Rrunnach]

The answer is, .2 of a mm wont make any difference to wire wander.

A lot of wire deformation can be attributed to, size of spool, wire roll tension.

 

[ukracer]

I bought a 360 amp migatronic torch to shorten for my old welder to use on aluminium, it's still in the shed as I sold the welder


That's why I bought the big torch setup to run bigger tips but it never got used.

You should sell it to me for a couple of beer vouchers. lol Assuming it fits my R-tech mig 250

 

[ukracer]

A lot of people do use the next size up for Alu mig and usually the reason behind it is because they are using standard solid wire rollers so the Alu wire gets squashed and struggles at the tip.
The idea of a contact tip is to make good contact. I use 1mm tip for 1mm Alu wire and because I also use all the correct parts as I listed above It works well. I'm a firm believer in if your going to take something on board that's difficult to do Then invest in the best stuff to stand a fighting chance.

If you can tig weld, which I am sure you can, why would you choose to use a mig instead??

 

[Richard.]

If you can tig weld, which I am sure you can, why would you choose to use a mig instead??

With aluminium?
Speed mainly. A lot of trailor bodies are built out of Alu and would take decades to build if they were done with AC Tig as nice as it might look. Alu mig with pulse is a very productive way of welding

 

[ukracer]

Be easier to use the set up the manufacturers recommend
Tip Liner & Rollers all cheap items

Not that cheap mate.. I just ordered a set up today. lol Had to sit down for a while.........

 

[ukracer]

With aluminium?
Speed mainly. A lot of trailor bodies are built out of Alu and would take decades to build if they were done with AC Tig as nice as it might look. Alu mig with pulse is a very productive way of welding

I am trying it as I really struggle with my tig on the parts I am trying to weld. It might be the Ali type but I dont have time to mess and test a lot for various reasons just now. We shall see tomorrow.

 

[Richard.]

Not that cheap mate.. I just ordered a set up today. lol Had to sit down for a while.........

No it's not cheap to buy the whole kit but in the long run its got to be cheaper than throwing wire away every time you hit a snag.

 

[Rrunnach]

Be easier to use the set up the manufacturers recommend
Tip Liner & Rollers all cheap items

I do use manufacturer recommendation for kitting up two, out of 16 bays mig plant for al/al welding. My job is to teach how machines are set up properly, I do also mention what can be got away with. Plant with long whips, can be a problem with proper setup. Plant with spool and gun, can be a problem with proper setup.

MIG welding al/al can be very fickle, even as a small or large spool is lightened through wire burn off, tweaks to wire feed is required, even incorrect tension to spool (brake tension) can cause issues with a new spool, hey...............I know nothing!

 

[ukracer]

No it's not cheap to buy the whole kit but in the long run its got to be cheaper than throwing wire away every time you hit a snag.

In my case I am hoping I can get the parts welded so I can progress with my idea. Steel is fine but really too heavy as its a fishing part I am making. I only need to weld 1 inch long but the joint is 90 degrees. Imagine a 3mm strap of ali 1 inch wide with 3 x90 degree bends meaning the last two pieces touch to form a rectangle so its an inside 90 degree joint that I need to fill on the outside.

 

[Rrunnach]

We're having "fun" with alu mig at college currently....someone unknown broke a brand new push pull gun 2 days after it was delivered.

So unexpected need to use a standard torch is causing major hassles, even for some of the tutors who have welded for years,
Wire randomly birds nesting (different brand ordered as closer inspection revealed the supplied wire was soft...really soft)
pulse settings recommended by cebora not giving decent results.

I had a go, decentish first go...then non stop problems with burn back, birds nesting etc...

I have burst a few of my helmets of walls when I have had similar experiences!! Not with our present gear,thankfully which is all Lincoln Electric gear.

 

[Richard.]

I do use manufacturer recommendation for kitting up two, out of 16 bays mig plant for al/al welding. My job is to teach how machines are set up properly, I do also mention what can be got away with. Plant with long whips, can be a problem with proper setup. Plant with spool and gun, can be a problem with proper setup.

MIG welding al/al can be very fickle, even as a small or large spool is lightened through wire burn off, tweaks to wire feed is required, even incorrect tension to spool (brake tension) can cause issues with a new spool, hey...............I know nothing!

No one says you know nothing mate we just like a friendly debate based on findings and opinions. It's never personal. I agree the subtle changes can be the difference between total success and des aster in Alu mig world. I do a similar job. I take problems on board From companies with consumables and Equipment set up and the theory is to come up with a solution as to generate sales. Sounds to me like you know your stuff people just have different ways of doing things. What works for one guy may not work for another.

 

[Richard.]

In my case I am hoping I can get the parts welded so I can progress with my idea. Steel is fine but really too heavy as its a fishing part I am making. I only need to weld 1 inch long but the joint is 90 degrees. Imagine a 3mm strap of ali 1 inch wide with 3 x90 degree bends meaning the last two pieces touch to form a rectangle so its an inside 90 degree joint that I need to fill on the outside.

I'm having a mental block picturing that. Have you got a drawing or pic of it.