Mig welder

[Bou27]

Could anyone give me some advice please?
I am new to welding and started off last year with a Sealey Mighty Mig 100 which gave me a taste for welding which I have found very satisfying. However, my welds leave a bit to be desired so have upgraded to a better machine which I have now purchased.
Before starting to use this BRAND NEW machine supplied by the agent, I looked through the operating instructions including the specification and noted that has an input amperage of 30.9amps.
This caused me concern as it is fitted with a 13amp plug and on removing the fuse have found that the fuse has been bridged with a piece of wire (not fuse wire) - see attached image.
Having found this I then looked at the specification for the input supply cable (see attached image) and from the identification markings was able to establish that the manufacturers specification for the cable is 20amp.
From your experience, would you consider it safe to use as it seems to me that it will over load the electrical supply and will be a fire hazard.
To my mind, this welder should be fitted with a 32amp plug and a cable from the plug to the machine also rated at 32amp.
I have contacted the supplier who says that these machines should be fitted with a 20amp fuse but this would be 50% more than the 13amp UK plug is designed and certified for.
Given the questionable supply gives me concern regarding the quality and functionality of the internal parts.

Your thoughts please.

 

[tigdlo]

Does the welder have an Ieff and Imax rating? if so what are they? If you could post a photo of the specs out if the manual and ratings plate on the welder this would help.

There is a good chance you would be fine with a 16 amp socket protected with a B16 or C16 MCB, if not a 32amp socket protected with a B20 or C20 MCB to protect the 2.5mm cable would also be fine.

13amp plugs have a maximum cable cross section of 1.5mm^2, you could make a 13amp plug to 16 amp socket fly lead, add a 16 amp plug to the welder and weld up to 150amps just fine, probably more if not for too long in one go.

You could also report to trading standards, get a refund and publically name and shame.

 

[Popcorn]

It's fairly common practice on a lot of Far Eastern welders/plasma cutters, my first plasma was the same. Just did as above put a 16amp plug and socket in and it's been fine.

 

[Bou27]

As requested here are the images of the plate and technical data from the operation manual.
I should have said that the welder is a 5 in 1 lGBTSemi automatic Synergic machine able to do both gas and flux cored MiG, alu & arc welding.

 

[Jack Ryan]

On the last image, I1eff is given at 15.5A. This is the service needed to operate the machine at maximum power at the rated duty cycle.

You could run it on a 13A circuit but it may pop the breaker is pushed hard. A 'C' curve breaker would be helpful.

Jack (not an electrician)

 

[Bou27]

On the last image, I1eff is given at 15.5A. This is the service needed to operate the machine at maximum power at the rated duty cycle.

You could run it on a 13A circuit but it may pop the breaker is pushed hard. A 'C' curve breaker would be helpful.

Jack (not an electrician)

Thanks Jack, what does the I max=30.9A relat to?

 

[Bou27]

On the last image, I1eff is given at 15.5A. This is the service needed to operate the machine at maximum power at the rated duty cycle.

You could run it on a 13A circuit but it may pop the breaker is pushed hard. A 'C' curve breaker would be helpful.

Jack (not an electrician)

Thanks for the information Jack - I have found the information relating to my question on another part of the forum. It’s to do with inrush supply which is explained nicely. I am now enlightened and feel OK to use the welder on the current supply. I will however remove the supplied fuse and replace it with a standard 13amp. If it blows it can easily be replaced.
There is always more to learn.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Thanks for the information Jack - I have found the information relating to my question on another part of the forum. It’s to do with inrush supply which is explained nicely. I am now enlightened and feel OK to use the welder on the current supply. I will however remove the supplied fuse and replace it with a standard 13amp. If it blows it can easily be replaced.
There is always more to learn.

It is not inrush current. At full output current, your welder draws 30.9A but it is not continuous. There is a standard calculation used to determine the "average" mains current that takes into account the duty cycle of the machine (and other things). This is Ieff which, in this case, is 15.5A

Ieff is then used to determine what mains supply cable and CB are required.

We don't have fuses in plugs in Australia, we rely on the circuit breaker. "C" curve fuse wire is hard to get.

Jack

 

[Bou27]

This is rather confusing Jack.
I think my best bet is to take some advice from a local electrical contactor regarding the required electrical supply.

 

[eddie49]

Your Hitbox MIG250DP is a 250Amp machine, so at the maximum setting in MIG mode it could weld steel up to 10mm thickness - in theory, Chinese Amps are often smaller than usual! ( For that thickness, you'd probably be using Arc at about 140A anyway.) So what thickness of material do you expect to be welding most often? Will you regularly be running the machine flat-out at the maximum setting? If not, it will happily run off a 13A plug.

[ As for inrush current, almost all inverter welders use a soft-start circuit, which allows the large input filter capacitors to be charged slowly via a relay-controlled resistor or thermistor, minimising the initial current surge.]

 

[Jack Ryan]

This is rather confusing Jack.

I don't know which part is confusing you so I'll just say:

1. The specification plate on your machine says you need a 15.5A or larger mains service
2. In reality, a standard 13A service is good enough

I think my best bet is to take some advice from a local electrical contactor regarding the required electrical supply.

Good idea.

Jack

 

[angellonewolf]

i think you have had some good advice if you swap out the current plug for a 13amp quality plug and fit a quality 13 amp fuse your covered for any problems if you do use more than the plug can supply you will blow the fuse and thats it

when welding unless your in a production place you will weld a bit ajust this and that have a coffee weld a bit more cut a piece to put in place weld more


generaly and this is me there are people thaat weld bigger stuff with mig but i do up to 3mm with mig and after that i use stick welding for anything over that and a 3mm rod that yours should do on a plug


put a plug on it and get some scrap and lay some welds you will see if it will run off the 13amp fuse with no danger as it will pop before any thing bad happens if at that point its blowing fuses for a pass time then you may want to think about a sparky putting a line in but not much point in going over kill if you dont need it

ive got a new to me compresser (ive asked a few questions on here about) from memery shows 14.5 amps rating but after a new capactor (that was knackared before)happy runs off the standard 13amp

 

[Bou27]

Thanks for all the advise that's been given.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say - tomorrow, all going to plan we shall see.
I have been prepping some 6mm x 50mm steel plate which I intend starting to weld tomorrow using the MMA function. According to the information on the web the settings should be at around 120amps. Accordind to Hitbox this is the limit that a 13amp plug can supply for this machine.
As I have 24 joints to make - butt & filet ranging between 50mm & 125mm long, it's going to be a good first outing for this machine and quite a lot of practice for me!
Not done stick welding before so will be diving in at the deep end!
Will need good penatration so likely quite a bit of post welding clean-up will be required.
Wish me luck.

 

[Beanwood]

Thanks for all the advise that's been given.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say - tomorrow, all going to plan we shall see.
I have been prepping some 6mm x 50mm steel plate which I intend starting to weld tomorrow using the MMA function. According to the information on the web the settings should be at around 120amps. Accordind to Hitbox this is the limit that a 13amp plug can supply for this machine.
As I have 24 joints to make - butt & filet ranging between 50mm & 125mm long, it's going to be a good first outing for this machine and quite a lot of practice for me!
Not done stick welding before so will be diving in at the deep end!
Will need good penatration so likely quite a bit of post welding clean-up will be required.
Wish me luck.

Obviously you have some practice pieces before launch into the main job?? Those will help you check settings and penetration.

 

[Bou27]

Obviously you have some practice pieces before launch into the main job?? Those will help you check settings and penetration.

 

[Bou27]

Obviously you have some practice pieces before launch into the main job?? Those will help you check settings and penetration.

Obviously