MIG/MAG or MMA/TIG?

[Guilherme Sá Marques]

Hello to everybody from Portugal,

Im new to welding (well i´ve had welding classes at school with arc).

Im a car and motorcycle guy (some car and bike modifications, now im doing a xt600 cafe racer) and i want a start machine to start and to other level later.

I had read a lot of things about Mig/MAG, MOG, MMA, GMAW, FCAW, TIG and so on but i can´t really decide what to do.

I am starting without gas for this year and im thinking about get gas next year so

Gys 142 mig/mag welder ( fluxed wire until i get the gas and for some quick repairs) 400€ new
Bester by lincoln 130i MMA with scratch TIG (MMA until i get gas) 200€ new
Bester 160i MMA with lift TIG 300€ new
GYS 130TIG MMA with lift TIG and High frequency TIG 300€ second hand

i know i have a lot of options but i really can´t decide what to choose.

 

[antonio costa]

Hi. I'm also from Portugal mate. First of all what do you really intend to weld? To bike and auto stuff stick welding and gasless wire is not really an option, you will be dealing with thin sheet metal. The most versatile óption from the ones you refer for the kind of work you are talking about would be the GYS Mig but with gas. Of course that TIG would also be an óption bu the gas cost will be higher and the learning curve steeper. Really you can buy a used co2 bottle quite cheap and get it refilled for about 25€ . From what part of Portugal are you? If you want argon/co2 mix and you are near Porto I can tell you the cheapest place to rent a bottle and since I go there lot's of times try to get you a extra discount if you come with me there. What I will really advise you against for the kind of work that you want to do is fluxed wire or MMA.

 

[antonio costa]

Also you need to consider the cost of a good Welding mask, gloves and so on if you don't have that already. Regards

 

[Bill Edwards]

MMA isn't suited to thin metal, such as on cars and motorcycles.

TIG is good on clean metal, but is very slow and takes some time to learn. MIG is quicker and easier to get the hang of.
I would avoid trying to go gasless, it's poor on thin metal - buy the gas now and save so much grief.

 

[Guilherme Sá Marques]

Thank you for the tips.
Antonio, im from Santarem and now i don´t want to take the gas route (120€ rental for 5years and 100€ 20kg refill for argon, i think is not that expensive)
I know MMA and gasless MIG it´s poor on thin metal and sheets but for now the gasless method would be for 2mm tubes ( bike frames, gates and whatever) and later i would have some gas and practice with thin metal and sheets.

I´m aware that TIG is the best thing for automotive (i really love this welding results) but i think TIG is something to work on a table or so and TIG makes both hands busy (not good somethimes)
Mig is great to, just one handed and with great results thought but the weld line is not so fantastic compared to TIG.

Im not going to invest much on starter welding machine (200€ to 400€) gloves and electronic mask already have.

If i had a MMA/TIG inverter i could use MMA for outside weldings, gates and other things at home (cheap method, im not going to waste gas on this) and TIG for other things Like automotive and motorcycle weldings
If i had a MIG/MAG i could use Gaslees for outside weldings " " " " and MIG for automotive and " " " (fluxed core is much more expensive then stick but other hand i think MIG is more affordable then TIG)

So, what to do?

 

[Richard.]

Welding of cars and bikes is not as straight forward as choosing a process and away you go. They are very different and a number of processes is required. It ain't cheap either. For your general car body work the best approach is mig with a solid wire low amps and a mix gas Ar/co2. For bikes in most cases it's Tig. It's usually a case of repairs to the frame swing arm, casings, exhaust etc which most modern bikes are Alu frames and stainless or even titanium exhausts. Your request cannot be done on the cheap unless you cut a massive chunk out of the scope. Mma is not an option here for either cars or bikes. It's the most impractical I believe. Gasless is messy and spattery and runs hotter. Is also prone to inclusions. I would avoid it personally. 200-400 euros I'm afraid wont allow you to get close to a professional job.

 

[Kent]

stop worrying about bead profile as you will be a way off that for a while, just get some sound safe welds and MIG is the best bet for that at the start, with gas shielding not FC.
TIG welding self taught, positional on less than perfect new metals? Nah, leave it a while yet spend time actually getting stuff together safely with a decent MIG and then get some hours and training in for TIG as and when you have enough spare cash and time

 

[Kent]

Welding of cars and bikes is not as straight forward as choosing a process and away you go. They are very different and a number of processes is required. It ain't cheap either. For your general car body work the best approach is mig with a solid wire low amps and a mix gas Ar/co2. For bikes in most cases it's Tig. It's usually a case of repairs to the frame swing arm, casings, exhaust etc which most modern bikes are Alu frames and stainless or even titanium exhausts. Your request cannot be done on the cheap unless you cut a massive chunk out of the scope. Mma is not an option here for either cars or bikes. It's the most impractical I believe. Gasless is messy and spattery and runs hotter. Is also prone to inclusions. I would avoid it personally. 200-400 euros I'm afraid wont allow you to get close to a professional job.

I should rather stick weld a car with a little biddy rod fitted than TIG one, especially in awkward hard to reach positions. Perhaps that's just me?

 

[Richard.]

Tig certainly is not just a table or bench process it's very good at taking to the job I do more Tig welding away from the bench than I do on it. If you go down the Tig route (which I would recommend for the motor bike route) you'll have to buy gas pure argon.

 

[Richard.]

I should rather stick weld a car with a little biddy rod fitted than TIG one, especially in awkward hard to reach positions. Perhaps that's just me?

Your probably a lot better with the sticks than me mate I'd adopt the mig as first choice for car but Tig would be my second.

 

[Richard.]

Tig would defiantly be first/only choice for me on motorcycle.

 

[Kent]

Your probably a lot better with the sticks than me mate I'd adopt the mig as first choice for car but Tig would be my second.

it might be age related, many fab shops didn't have a TIG in them when I trained. I think many just never tried little rods and welding downhill in preference to up. Wasn't all that long back that MMA or OFW was all they had

 

[Richard.]

Yeah it's down to the process at which you feel better with. I can mma weld ok and I really enjoy burning some rods but it's not my best skill (even though it's the only process I have ever held codings for many years ago) with the really thin rods I tend to get some slag traps in the run which is definitely down to my lack of skill with the process I'm a lot better with a 6mm fillet and a 3.2 rod.

 

[Guilherme Sá Marques]

Thank you all again,

Just to be clear i´m not trying to be professional with 400€ welding machine, i´m trying to by a 400€ machine for training and for evolution prespective.
With 400€ i can go to a 40-140 amp MIG/MAG welder or to a 10-130amp High frequency and lift start (have both) and it as MMA too.

As i said im really not to weld aluminium or titanium, for now im just gonna weld steel frames, inox stuff and so on. Maybe later i would by other machine just for aluminium and stuff.
MIG/MAG now and later purchase a AC/DC (great band ) TIG machine or buy now a DC TIG machine to understand the methods and be familiar with this kind of work and later buy a ac/dc.

i don´t know if you are understand me (bit confusing right now haha)

regards

 

[Jim Davey]

Get the GYS MIG and start practicing, you'll soon get the hang of it and quickly find the limitations on the self shielded wires.
Upgrade to solid wire with a shielding gas and you'll see a marked improvement in your welds.
If after that in a year or so you want to improve your results look at TIG.
If if was just bikes and no cars I'd go TIG from the start, but if you're doing both, sooner or later you'll need both.

 

[Richard.]

Just to be clear i´m not trying to be professional with 400€ welding machine,

I totally get what your saying but unless your welding on scrap metal or your own cars/bikes you'll have little choice but to be professional. Not many people (me included) would want to use there vehicle as a ginipig to learn on. Avoid that game for now get down to the local scrapyard and fill up a bucket of steel. Learn to weld, gasless would be just fine for that. Then start thinking of taking on some simple jobs.

 

[Guilherme Sá Marques]

Thank you all for your time and advices

With your help i know now that what i want is a mig/mag.

now what to get?

Telwin bimax 1.165 turbo 380€
Telwin Bimax 152 turbo 380€
Gyzmi smartmig 142 400€
DECA STARWIN 180E 385€
Telwin Technomig 150 392€
telwin bimax 4.135 turbo 330€
Telwin bimax 162 turbo 410€

Those brands i know i can have warranty assistance here in Portugal ( i don´t think i can have clarke and so)

 

[antonio costa]

Hi Gonçalo.
Wise choice going the mig route. Don't forget about the option that I told you about, using pure CO2 that get's a lot cheaper than Argon/co2 mix and although running hotter and with more spatter it's a lot better than self shielding wire.
From the ones you're listing I would go with the Gys one as far as quality and reliability goes although the some of the other options you listed have more power.
You have several other brands available in Portugal but go outside your price range.
Regards,
antonio Costa

 

[antonio costa]

There is a company the represents Lincoln near you in Forte da Casa, I will take a look at heir site to see for how much the sp170 lincoln goes. That would be an amazing choice!

 

[antonio costa]

Just checked, way out of your price range and there a lot better option for that kind of cash.
http://soldadura.pt/shop/power-mig-180c.html
so in my opinion the Gys one still get's my vote as far as quality and reliability goes