Mig for thin 1.2mm plate bodywork

[GC77]

Hi,
I have borrowed a mig for welding thin plate. Even when tacking it is not great. It is a draper 100 storm force gas less. Using lowest setting (not sure amps) and 0.8mm flux wire / also tried 0.6mm flux but lot and lots needed with lots of spray.

I am on market looking to buy one, any recommendations (£250). Gas or gas less just need to weld thin plate.

Thanks

 

[eddie49]

Hello and welcome to the Forum !
The dataplate for the Draper Storm Force gasless MIG welder shows an electrical symbol of two overlapping circles, which represents a transformer. That's it, no rectifier, no inductor, it is just a transformer in a box. The power ranges start at 40 Amps. That spec plus gasless wire makes for just about the worst welder that you could use for thin sheet metal, especially if you are new to MIG welding.
For hobby-level MIG suggestions, search the Forum ( top right ) for BlackLine, StaticArc, Uptime, Dirty Pro, Rohr.

 

[roofman]

Hello and welcome to the Forum !
The dataplate for the Draper Storm Force gasless MIG welder shows an electrical symbol of two overlapping circles, which represents a transformer. That's it, no rectifier, no inductor, it is just a transformer in a box. The power ranges start at 40 Amps. That spec plus gasless wire makes for just about the worst welder that you could use for thin sheet metal, especially if you are new to MIG welding.
For hobby-level MIG suggestions, search the Forum ( top right ) for BlackLine, StaticArc, Uptime, Dirty Pro, Rohr.

Always enjoy your knowledge of welding machines Eddie, imho a big asset to this forum mate

 

[tigdlo]

any recommendations

Spend more on a gas mig setup, unfortunately 20L rent free gas is approx. £200 initial cost and about £85 refill but check prices with your local supplier of Adams gases, Hobbyweld and SGS. 10L bottles are generally a false economy especially for Hobbyweld as the fill pressure is lower but Aams and SGS may be OK for an occasional welder if the initial outlay is a bit rich.

 

[Robert Weaver]

The thickness of material is not proportional to the price of the machine. Ballpark guide - thin and thick tends to require expensive investments, while 1.5-3 mm is readily doable on cheaper machines. Aluminium is different.
Gas and PPE needs to be factored in, but also think about resale of kit if you're not keeping it; you might get a lot of your money back.

For thin plate steel, you'll likely need an inverter machine, solid 0.6mm wire, gas. More bells and whistles help control the puddle and reduce blow through, but increase the cost.

 

[GC77]

Hello and welcome to the Forum !
The dataplate for the Draper Storm Force gasless MIG welder shows an electrical symbol of two overlapping circles, which represents a transformer. That's it, no rectifier, no inductor, it is just a transformer in a box. The power ranges start at 40 Amps. That spec plus gasless wire makes for just about the worst welder that you could use for thin sheet metal, especially if you are new to MIG welding.
For hobby-level MIG suggestions, search the Forum ( top right ) for BlackLine, StaticArc, Uptime, Dirty Pro, Rohr.

Thank you appreciate the guidance

 

[GC77]

The thickness of material is not proportional to the price of the machine. Ballpark guide - thin and thick tends to require expensive investments, while 1.5-3 mm is readily doable on cheaper machines. Aluminium is different.
Gas and PPE needs to be factored in, but also think about resale of kit if you're not keeping it; you might get a lot of your money back.

For thin plate steel, you'll likely need an inverter machine, solid 0.6mm wire, gas. More bells and whistles help control the puddle and reduce blow through, but increase the cost.

Thank you

 

[GC77]

The thickness of material is not proportional to the price of the machine. Ballpark guide - thin and thick tends to require expensive investments, while 1.5-3 mm is readily doable on cheaper machines. Aluminium is different.
Gas and PPE needs to be factored in, but also think about resale of kit if you're not keeping it; you might get a lot of your money back.

For thin plate steel, you'll likely need an inverter machine, solid 0.6mm wire, gas. More bells and whistles help control the puddle and reduce blow through, but increase the cost.

I have PPE so just need gas and welder. Thank for info

The thickness of material is not proportional to the price of the machine. Ballpark guide - thin and thick tends to require expensive investments, while 1.5-3 mm is readily doable on cheaper machines. Aluminium is different.
Gas and PPE needs to be factored in, but also think about resale of kit if you're not keeping it; you might get a lot of your money back.

For thin plate steel, you'll likely need an inverter machine, solid 0.6mm wire, gas. More bells and whistles help control the puddle and reduce blow through, but increase the cost.

thanks I’ll look at inverters

 

[GC77]

Hello and welcome to the Forum !
The dataplate for the Draper Storm Force gasless MIG welder shows an electrical symbol of two overlapping circles, which represents a transformer. That's it, no rectifier, no inductor, it is just a transformer in a box. The power ranges start at 40 Amps. That spec plus gasless wire makes for just about the worst welder that you could use for thin sheet metal, especially if you are new to MIG welding.
For hobby-level MIG suggestions, search the Forum ( top right ) for BlackLine, StaticArc, Uptime, Dirty Pro, Rohr.

What Amp am I looking for? To give me a guide. Thanks

 

[Robert Weaver]

The situation youre looking at is a compounded misnomer. Mig welding is a constant voltage process, and amps change during welding as a result of wfs and arc length. Plus, inverter machines are very fast pulsed waveform voltage, giving a psudo constant current. This isn't true mig, and marketing on current can't be used to compare different machines, as the waveforms aren't the same.

A long winded post to say it isn't easy. I had an uptime 180 (or 160, can't remember) and it was excellent. Marketing blurb claimed it went down to 15amp. Physically, it needs to be enough to melt wire of a given diameter at a given length, and some of the base metal, so there's a limit on how low it can be before it doesn't spark.

 

[eddie49]

A rough rule-of-thumb is 30 to 40 Amps per millimetre, or 1 Amp per thousandth of an inch.
For use on thin sheet metal, especially car bodywork that was rusty and has been sanded, you need a welder that can go down to 30 Amps. Check the dataplate, or User manual. Some inverters erroneously list their minimum rating as "50 Amps" but this is usually a mistake.
Modern MIG welders based on inverter power supplies ( rather than transformers ) offer fully-variable adjustment of output voltage and wirespeed, and often they can also be used as Arc ( MMA ) welders.
Many inverter welders can effectively be turned down to "zero" Amps.
There are "synergic" welders that adjust both voltage and wirespeed using a single control, with a pre-programmed ratio or "map" for both variables. That control may be calibrated in millimetres of metal thickness. A good synergic welder will also have a "trim" control to adjust the voltage up or down by a small amount, and also offer a fully-manual mode.

 

[Robert Weaver]

Found this...
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/current-for-thin-sheet.58104/

 

[JOEPRO]

0.8mm wire and a series of tack welds is usually how car body repairs are carried out. Around 120amp or so, decently hot for the tacks to run nice.

I have never once seen a car welded as a continuous weld so this 30 amp thing makes no sense to me

 

[Jack Ryan]

The situation youre looking at is a compounded misnomer. Mig welding is a constant voltage process, and amps change during welding as a result of wfs and arc length. Plus, inverter machines are very fast pulsed waveform voltage, giving a psudo constant current. This isn't true mig, and marketing on current can't be used to compare different machines, as the waveforms aren't the same.

Sorry but that is not true.

An inverter can produce a constant voltage or a constant current power supply and it can do it more efficiently and with many more options than any transformer.

Compared to an inverter, a transformer produces very slow (50Hz) current pulses.

Nearly all MIG/MAG/FCAW machines are compared, amongst other things, by current. At normal MIG welding voltages, current determines the thickness of metal that can be welded (hence rules of thumb like 40A/mm). Current is usually set via the wire feed speed but can sometimes be set directly or synergically and a low minimum is very useful for thin panels.

Cheap machines often will not have a low enough minimum current, or if they do, the arc is unstable. As someone already mentioned, just because the material is thin, does not mean that a cheap machine will do.

The OP wrote "just need to weld thin plate". I assume that means thin panel - like less than 1mm. Thin plate to me is more like 3mm.

Jack

 

[Jack Ryan]

The OP wrote "just need to weld thin plate". I assume that means thin panel - like less than 1mm. Thin plate to me is more like 3mm.

Sorry, I see it in the title. Can't see that when responding.

Jack

 

[GC77]

Sorry but that is not true.

An inverter can produce a constant voltage or a constant current power supply and it can do it more efficiently and with many more options than any transformer.

Compared to an inverter, a transformer produces very slow (50Hz) current pulses.

Nearly all MIG/MAG/FCAW machines are compared, amongst other things, by current. At normal MIG welding voltages, current determines the thickness of metal that can be welded (hence rules of thumb like 40A/mm). Current is usually set via the wire feed speed but can sometimes be set directly or synergically and a low minimum is very useful for thin panels.

Cheap machines often will not have a low enough minimum current, or if they do, the arc is unstable. As someone already mentioned, just because the material is thin, does not mean that a cheap machine will do.

The OP wrote "just need to weld thin plate". I assume that means thin panel - like less than 1mm. Thin plate to me is more like 3mm.

Jack

Thanks Jack.
Yes I will be welding 1.2mm body panels.

Sorry, I see it in the title. Can't see that when responding.

Jack

can you recommend a welder mate? I have looked at static arc, dirty pro and uptime.

Not too sure what’s the best form them - ?
Thanks

 

[Jack Ryan]

Thanks Jack.
Yes I will be welding 1.2mm body panels.

can you recommend a welder mate? I have looked at static arc, dirty pro and uptime.

Not too sure what’s the best form them - ?
Thanks

Sorry, they're all foreign!

Perhaps a local will comment.

Jack
Far away.

 

[Shedendman]

1.2 thin body work,thats like armoured plate compared to the tin foil stuff i've had to stick together over the years

 

[steveo3002]

1.2 thin body work,thats like armoured plate compared to the tin foil stuff i've had to stick together over the years

yeah be lucky if the chassis leg is 1.2mm

 

[jo1010]

Agree with what's been said so far.....the older technology machines are transformer based and for panels you ideally want a 90 to 160 (max) amp machine (if your looking at migs) - much higher amperage machines such as 180 amps plus) won't have flexibility at the bottom end. Some of these were constructed with car bodywork in mind, so there is sometimes a clue in the name eg autostar, autoweld. I've used a Clarke mig pro 90 (gas) with 0.6 wire for years and it's range for thin stuff is great...and it will also do 4mm if correctly prepared. Don't bother with flux core really bc of the amount of cleanup of spatter after it - nor pub gas either IMO. Otherwise your into the inverters, and these days you can take your chances with the Amazon/eBay products.....some of which offer 2 or 3 year guarantees.....but then need to return to China for a fault (unless you buy a brand with a UK base... which limits the range of possible machines quite a lot). It is a minefield really and there are few straight answers I'm afraid.