MIG Beads sitting too high

[HughF]

Surely the % co2 is too high for thin metal?

5% for thin stuff 15% for universal & 20%+ for thick.

Do a penetration dye test.

In my vast and extensive experience, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Co2 to mixed gas, yes... Variations in mixed gas, no.

 

[davidjohnperry]

OK gun angle has some thing to play with on pen but its also a mixture of wfs voltage and travel speed I would show you a photo but I lent my old company apprentices the book with the pictures.

 

[My Old Landy]

In my vast and extensive experience, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Co2 to mixed gas, yes... Variations in mixed gas, no.

I am running 20% as I listened to my FIL but it still welds I don't know enough about the subject matter to be honest!

 

[HughF]

I am running 20% as I listened to my FIL but it still welds I don't know enough about the subject matter to be honest!

Higher co2 in the heavy mixtures allows you to stay in dip transfer as you go up the volts, which is what you need for working out of position.

 

[My Old Landy]

Higher co2 in the heavy mixtures allows you to stay in dip transfer as you go up the volts, which is what you need for working out of position.

Cheers for that, it will help when laying under the landy welding up the chassis then

 

[Bornfree]

I've taken it from here in the past you pull the mma rod from the puddle but you push the mig wire into the puddle for better penetration.

Anyone?

I've been welding for many years but iam self taught so I could be wrong but I know that if i have the welder set slightly to hot and iam burning through on pull I can swap to push and weld it ok without turning it down.

 

[123hotchef]

Higher co2 in the heavy mixtures allows you to stay in dip transfer as you go up the volts, which is what you need for working out of position.

i miss pure co2 used to stay in spray transfer with pub bottles but now I cant get them

 

[Bravheart]

​

copied from the mig guide tutorial​

Positioning the tip​

The heat from the weld goes in the direction of the wire. The shroud should be angled around 20 degrees from vertical in the direction of the weld. This is called pushing the torch which improves penetration - angling the torch the other way (pulling the torch) would heat up the weld you have already done and reduce penetration.
The end of the shroud should be close to the work without actually touching the weld. On thin metal around car bodywork thickness a very short arc is the way to go - it doesn't much matter if you bounce the shroud off the weld occasionally as you go along. For thicker metal over 4mm the weld takes longer to cool and the shroud will tend to fill with spatter if it contacts the weld so a small clearance is useful.

 

[davidjohnperry]

i miss pure co2 used to stay in spray transfer with pub bottles but now I cant get them

If I remember correctly you can't get in spray transfer with out argon I could be wrong but I'm sure I read it somewhere

 

[Bornfree]

​

copied from the mig guide tutorial​

​

Positioning the tip​

The heat from the weld goes in the direction of the wire. The shroud should be angled around 20 degrees from vertical in the direction of the weld. This is called pushing the torch which improves penetration - angling the torch the other way (pulling the torch) would heat up the weld you have already done and reduce penetration.
The end of the shroud should be close to the work without actually touching the weld. On thin metal around car bodywork thickness a very short arc is the way to go - it doesn't much matter if you bounce the shroud off the weld occasionally as you go along. For thicker metal over 4mm the weld takes longer to cool and the shroud will tend to fill with spatter if it contacts the weld so a small clearance is useful.
even the experts cannot agree.

 

[HughF]

i miss pure co2 used to stay in spray transfer with pub bottles but now I cant get them

you mean dip transfer... good luck getting solid wire to spray with co2

 

[Bravheart]

​

copied from the mig guide tutorial​

​

Positioning the tip​

The heat from the weld goes in the direction of the wire. The shroud should be angled around 20 degrees from vertical in the direction of the weld. This is called pushing the torch which improves penetration - angling the torch the other way (pulling the torch) would heat up the weld you have already done and reduce penetration.
The end of the shroud should be close to the work without actually touching the weld. On thin metal around car bodywork thickness a very short arc is the way to go - it doesn't much matter if you bounce the shroud off the weld occasionally as you go along. For thicker metal over 4mm the weld takes longer to cool and the shroud will tend to fill with spatter if it contacts the weld so a small clearance is useful.

View attachment 290860

fftopic:
So we are in danger of straying off track here but we have both have proved our point with published instruction that prove the opposites.
So which is best? Or does it really matter?

Mods. move to a new thread if you like.

 

[Bornfree]

fftopic:
So we are in danger of straying off track here but we have both have proved our point with published instruction that prove the opposites.
So which is best? Or does it really matter?

Mods. move to a new thread if you like.

when the experts cannot agree we have no hope.

 

[Munkul]

fftopic:
So we are in danger of straying off track here but we have both have proved our point with published instruction that prove the opposites.
So which is best? Or does it really matter?

It doesn't. On steel with solid wire, you can pull OR push. Both will give good welds if the amps and volts are set right. There are subtle differences to the puddle and the bead, but the rule of thumb is to not lean it more than 15 degrees from 90 either way. But pushing is more generally accepted.

On flux core wire, you pull. Always.
On aluminium MIG, you push. Always.

Now I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the underside of the arc is the hottest, at least it seems that the most heat is concentrated here. It's always seemed that way to me, anyways. So if you pull, this hot side is facing fresh metal and biting in, but then that energy isnt going into the weld bead, and you'll get a slightly peakier weld bead. If you push, this hot side is facing the weld bead and helps it wet out. It also helps with puddle control and preventing burn-through. (if you MIG thin material, you tend to blow holes behind the arc, not in front of it)

That's my theory from my personal experience, and I didn't pull that from any textbook, so please don't take my word for it.

 

[Reg Moore]

Hi everyone and thank you for the further comments. Yes, it was a gas problem! Cock-up at the filling plant apparently and I received 100% Argon instead of 82/18 mix. All sorted now and great looking beads.

Barking Mat​

if you check them out on ebay you'll find 8L bottles, you keep the bottle and refill if you can find a supplier or send back for filling​