Mens Shed H&S Question

[Keith 66]

Today i dropped of a pile of woodworking books to my local mens shed, Its been going a few years but only recently restarted after covid.
They were using a saw bench & had removed the crown guard & riving knife as "They got in the way & stopped us cutting thicker wood".
Old boy using it nearly had two kickbacks while i was there as the short wide piece of wood he was sawing was climbing up the back of the blade.
I did say something & have followed up with an email to the organiser.
Its clear to me that unless they sort something soon they are going to have a bad accident & as i said "Ignorance is no excuse".
Do any of you work with mens sheds & what sort of training do they use or recomend? Any ideas on where to point them?
As a school technician i had to do 5 yearly Design & technolgy association training of all the machines in schools but my certificates have new expired, in any case i wasnt a certified trainer so shouldnt really be training people!
Any thoughts welcomed

 

[RWD3M]

Vark?

@The_Yellow_Ardvark

 

[8ob]

Buy everyone in there an umbrella

Has the man received adequate training to use the equipment, was he wearing the appropriate PPE and was the equipment hse compliant/in safe working order?Doesn't sound like the oppo can tick one of those boxes .

Bob

 

[mike os]

Clearly inadequate training … might be “ok” at home (it’s really not) but not in a place like that

And absolutely never without a riving knife

 

[Keith 66]

I get the distinct impression that nobody there has had any training at all, all enthusiastic amateurs. Im probably making a rod for my own back here but i said that i would ask.
As im not a qualified trainer all i can do is advise that they get something in place, or advise on best practice, with the proviso that i cant give them a bit of paper, or is even that going too far?

 

[addjunkie]

Buy everyone in there an umbrella

Has the man received adequate training to use the equipment, was he wearing the appropriate PPE and was the equipment hse compliant/in safe working order?Doesn't sound like the oppo can tick one of those boxes .

Bob

In the working enviroment the machine would be isolated electrically untill the guard and knife were refitted and folk deemed competent to use it.
Removing guards would void any insurance and probably make someone liable for any outcomes from it as even though its a charity Im sure one of @Parm colleagues would take an interest.

 

[Fastdruid]

There are some arguments to be made for removing the guard (certainly for some operations) but none that I know of to remove the riving knife!

 

[bourbon]

I wouldn't be setting near the place again if I were in your shoes. You will be making a rod for your own back. If you decide to get involved. The E-mail to the organizers should be enough. This raises a very valid point. Who actually regulates the activities of Men's Shed's?

 

[Parm]

In the working enviroment the machine would be isolated electrically untill the guard and knife were refitted and folk deemed competent to use it.
Removing guards would void any insurance and probably make someone liable for any outcomes from it as even though its a charity Im sure one of @Parm colleagues would take an interest.

Yes, but I’m not sure. It depends on the application of the health and safety at work act and the understanding if the activity is “at work”

Irrespective of how and if the law applies it’s never good to removing riving knifes and guards

 

[tom2207]

Yes, but I’m not sure. It depends on the application of the health and safety at work act and the understanding if the activity is “at work”

Irrespective of how and if the law applies it’s never good to removing riving knifes and guards

Its seldom wise to take guards off anything, if the job cant be done with guards on your using the wrong tool.

 

[Agroshield]

See:

Complaints | UKMSA | Men's Sheds Association

If you are concerned about practices in a Shed or service it is possible to contact UKMSA to raise your concerns and complaints.

menssheds.org.uk

Charter-for-wellbeing-in-craft-and-DIY - UKMSA Men's Sheds Association

Looking for Resources, Press Releases, our Partners or someone to support your mental health? (If the graphic is not loading, please click here) Together we can improve wellbeing across the Craft and DIY sector. The Charter for wellbeing in Craft and DIY is an expression of commitment to support...

menssheds.org.uk

Photos are very difficult to argue with...

 

[frank horton]

The organiser need to nominate a few guys to get them trainEd so there is always someone there to cut wood but ONLY the trained can be users of these machine…let’s hope they don’t get gifted a spindle-moulder…
there also needs to be a nominated first aider, or more to the point get em all trained….St johns I’m sure would help as a.fellow charity…
I'm not sure that any place can operate without some sort of H+S….
even if they sign a waiver….
Ive just had a bad run in with my defib pacemaker, out of the blue…
still in ICU….
So what happens when somebody has a bad accident..…dread to think….
**** happens so fast esp with old codgers like me….

 

[gaz1]

dosnt matter if its in a circular saw or table saw it shouldnt be removed

i have seen many new circular saws not having a fitted riving knife i have one of them im very aware of kickback with it

graphic enough but not over graphic

 

[gt6s]

Good luck getting insurance. My local mental health group set up a woodworking shed Laths saws etc No instruction no H&S of any kind. UNTILL THE INSURANCE FOUND OUT Now closed down. Money well spent NOT ! Big empty purpose built shed. Nothing sharper than a screwdriver now.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Its seldom wise to take guards off anything

I took the guard off my tiny 80mm grinder...it's tiny so very unlikely to cause a major injury...people go over the top on this stuff (that was my thinking).

Within 5 minutes of use I'd cut my thumb open nicely....guard back on...silly season brought to an end!

Last week I cut my finger open...wait for it....with a power file of all things!

 

[Onoff]

The act of removing safety features was quite likely deliberate. If you watch carefully as they're cutting you'll see their lips moving....."Take me Lord, take me now or at least grant me a long stay in hospital".

What the op is forgetting is that that some of these lads are married and have been for a great many years.

 

[tom2207]

I took the guard off my tiny 80mm grinder...it's tiny so very unlikely to cause a major injury...people go over the top on this stuff (that was my thinking).

Within 5 minutes of use I'd cut my thumb open nicely....guard back on...silly season brought to an end!

Last week I cut my finger open...wait for it....with a power file of all things!

well done ,, thats quite some going lol

A sore thumbs a sore thing ///

but a sore thing isnt a sore thumb.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Each shed will do it their way.
There is no set way, but MIS Uk will give herlpo and advice.

This is how we have done it.

Each power tool. Or tool which may give rise toi injury is listed.
In the file is the "approved" people who can give training on the tools.
In addition we have those who have received the training we have set up for the tools.

Most can be found on the WWW, companies web sites. Even you you cal them up. Most will be willing to help.

We do not accept the following or similar.
I have been using tools, this tool, that tool etc for "N" years.

The rules are you get training qand guidance.

If you want to add to it, please do so.

Guards, PPE etc.
They are fitted, they are there.
Use the safety gear, guards.
Or do not use the mqachine or tool.


Yes yopu wil get those who think they know better.

But a few words can get the to see the MIS i way is best all round.


Oh yes.
It will change.

 

[winchman]

Yes, but I’m not sure. It depends on the application of the health and safety at work act and the understanding if the activity is “at work”

Irrespective of how and if the law applies it’s never good to removing riving knifes and guards

Very good point
I treat every environment like work as it can still injure you or others

 

[tom2207]

The act of removing safety features was quite likely deliberate. If you watch carefully as they're cutting you'll see their lips moving....."Take me Lord, take me now or at least grant me a long stay in hospital".

What the op is forgetting is that that some of these lads are married and have been for a great many years.

I guess the point there is that the ones who have been married for years are used to pain and suffering ..