- Thread starter brewdexta
- Start date
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
The wife and kids are away in Londom so caught a bit of workshop time before the dog walked me tk the pub 
The next task was testing the ebay VFD. The motor plate said dual voltage, and this almost unreadable decal from the inside if the wiring cover gives you the options.
Basically put the vertical straps shown here horizontal to change from star to delta.
After that it was a breeze, once i remembered how to programme the Weg VFDs. Second hand VFD works fine, as do the forward/off/reverse controls, just need to test the speed control by adding the variable resistor.
I did cut the 12mm 303 SS rod to length for the new quill handles but haven't had a go with the 1/2" BSW and M12 dies yet.
The next task was testing the ebay VFD. The motor plate said dual voltage, and this almost unreadable decal from the inside if the wiring cover gives you the options.
Basically put the vertical straps shown here horizontal to change from star to delta.
After that it was a breeze, once i remembered how to programme the Weg VFDs. Second hand VFD works fine, as do the forward/off/reverse controls, just need to test the speed control by adding the variable resistor.
I did cut the 12mm 303 SS rod to length for the new quill handles but haven't had a go with the 1/2" BSW and M12 dies yet.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
On the finishing straight now. I just have the star handles to make and thread. I used 3 bits of 12mm 303 SS, they are threaded 1/2" BSW at one end and 12mm at t'other. I had a few issue with the BSW end to begin with, despite the rod being 0.5mm undersize, mainly because I was using ancient dies from my dad's cache, probably not HSS, a new old stock Presto HSS from the bay made short work of it.
Just the metric ends for the new knobs to complete
I did put the bodged star wheel on for a while so I could move the quill while testing it
That's better, the knobs are probably a little on the big side, but that's not always a bad thing
The knobs do clear the rest of the drill which is good. Once I've used the drill a bit, just to make sure the arms aren't too long, I'll use some thread locker on the threads at both ends.
So, do I replace the mill/drill with the Meddings? Or do I buy the Meddings MF5 on the bay? A pillar drill would sit nicely where that ex GPO cabinet is and give me more bench room...........
Once I've moved the VFD wiring to the wall and put some strain relief on the cables to/from it, the next job is replacing the noisy quill bearings on the Warco mill/drill, and I'll probably give it a bit of a scrub up while I'm at it.
Just the metric ends for the new knobs to complete
I did put the bodged star wheel on for a while so I could move the quill while testing it
That's better, the knobs are probably a little on the big side, but that's not always a bad thing
The knobs do clear the rest of the drill which is good. Once I've used the drill a bit, just to make sure the arms aren't too long, I'll use some thread locker on the threads at both ends.
So, do I replace the mill/drill with the Meddings? Or do I buy the Meddings MF5 on the bay? A pillar drill would sit nicely where that ex GPO cabinet is and give me more bench room...........
Once I've moved the VFD wiring to the wall and put some strain relief on the cables to/from it, the next job is replacing the noisy quill bearings on the Warco mill/drill, and I'll probably give it a bit of a scrub up while I'm at it.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
A slight intermission while I clear out another drill. I gave an older Meddings MB2 to a friend of mine a while ago. I got it for free when I bought an MB4 for spares. It worked but no back gear, and it's built like a battleship even the belt cover was cast iron.
Anyway, after 6 months he complained that it was too big and took up all the room in his shed and his bench was bending. So I had a cunning plan.
I have this old Tauco type drill that my dad acquired but never got working. Much smaller with a JT2 external taper rather than mt2 internal.
Here's some of the bits
Motors is a bit rusty but works.
a bit of a smile on the table
Motor now in etch primer, I couldn't send it out like that.
The plan was to give him the Tauco, take back the battleship Meddings and give that to a neighboring farmer who needs a drill that can take morse taper drills.
All good, except my mate gave the battleship to his mechanic.....
Anyway, I'll finish the Tauco Wadkin grey as I'm spraying some bits of a Wadkin saw soon, then he can have it. I'll find something else for the neighbour.
Anyway, after 6 months he complained that it was too big and took up all the room in his shed and his bench was bending. So I had a cunning plan.
I have this old Tauco type drill that my dad acquired but never got working. Much smaller with a JT2 external taper rather than mt2 internal.
Here's some of the bits
Motors is a bit rusty but works.
a bit of a smile on the table
Motor now in etch primer, I couldn't send it out like that.
The plan was to give him the Tauco, take back the battleship Meddings and give that to a neighboring farmer who needs a drill that can take morse taper drills.
All good, except my mate gave the battleship to his mechanic.....
Anyway, I'll finish the Tauco Wadkin grey as I'm spraying some bits of a Wadkin saw soon, then he can have it. I'll find something else for the neighbour.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
Now I've got my mojo back, I'm cracking on with completing semi-finished projects.
I got a new quill gear shaft. Here's the old and the new. The new one is at the top, the gear is narrower but there is only a small contact area with the quill so doesn't impact operation. The new shaft isn't drilled for the handle pin or have a flat for the grub screw, neither is much is problem.
This is why I bought the new one, the threads are knackered. I was going to build it up with weld and recut the threads, this saves me the bother plus the gear isn't worn.
The shaft is now in, took me longer to find my transfer punches to mark the shaft through the handle pin hole than it did to drill it and get it working. Now onto the VFD.
I got a new quill gear shaft. Here's the old and the new. The new one is at the top, the gear is narrower but there is only a small contact area with the quill so doesn't impact operation. The new shaft isn't drilled for the handle pin or have a flat for the grub screw, neither is much is problem.
This is why I bought the new one, the threads are knackered. I was going to build it up with weld and recut the threads, this saves me the bother plus the gear isn't worn.
The shaft is now in, took me longer to find my transfer punches to mark the shaft through the handle pin hole than it did to drill it and get it working. Now onto the VFD.
Last edited:
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
I installed the VFD and all worked, forwards and reverse and the speed control. Drilled a couple of holes and decided to finish assembling the Nippy vice I took apart for cleaning as it was a bit rusty and stiff,. While I was doing that, the lights went out, The RCD for the workshop had tripped. It seems to be the drill/VFD and only when it is idle, possibly, no error messages on the VFD.
I've got a brand new motor for the Tome Senior mill, I will move the motor cabling onto that in case its the old motor breaking down, it is a bit ancient and the wiring is showing a bit of crispiness. I have until 16th Feb to swap out the VFD if that is at fault, that's the trouble with not finishing projects when you start them, most of the gear you buy is out of warranty by the time you've tried it.
I've got a brand new motor for the Tome Senior mill, I will move the motor cabling onto that in case its the old motor breaking down, it is a bit ancient and the wiring is showing a bit of crispiness. I have until 16th Feb to swap out the VFD if that is at fault, that's the trouble with not finishing projects when you start them, most of the gear you buy is out of warranty by the time you've tried it.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
As suspected, so far the modern motor I've now attached to the VFD has stopped the RCD tripping. So its likely to be some crusty wire or winding insulation breakdown.
My first reaction was to buy a 750W 80 frame 4 pole 3 phase motor as that would perform better than the 550W motor at lower speeds with the VFD. but there's a snag.
This is the old motor without the cover
and with the cover, quite a lot of the end of the motor is covered. You can see a knurled nut to hold the cover, they are in SS, they were metric, I drilled and tapped them 3/8" BSF to suit the drill.
Almost all modern motors have the junction box up near the shaft end. So would clash with the cover.
So the box would need to move, most don't, or the cover cut. I don't like buying work so I'll do a bit of maintenance on the old motor first. I'll replace the wires from the windings to the junction box as they are a bit crusty and see if that sorts it.
EDIT, while I was writing this, the RCD tripped, so ignore the above! I'll swap out the power lead just in case, if that doesn't fix it then its return to supplier.
Beer O'clock.....
Cheers
Andy
My first reaction was to buy a 750W 80 frame 4 pole 3 phase motor as that would perform better than the 550W motor at lower speeds with the VFD. but there's a snag.
This is the old motor without the cover
and with the cover, quite a lot of the end of the motor is covered. You can see a knurled nut to hold the cover, they are in SS, they were metric, I drilled and tapped them 3/8" BSF to suit the drill.
Almost all modern motors have the junction box up near the shaft end. So would clash with the cover.
So the box would need to move, most don't, or the cover cut. I don't like buying work so I'll do a bit of maintenance on the old motor first. I'll replace the wires from the windings to the junction box as they are a bit crusty and see if that sorts it.
EDIT, while I was writing this, the RCD tripped, so ignore the above! I'll swap out the power lead just in case, if that doesn't fix it then its return to supplier.
Beer O'clock.....
Cheers
Andy
Smouser
Member
- Messages
- 1,214
- Location
- Amesbury, Wiltshire, UK
@brewdexta I had a problem with ABB VFDs tripping the breaker too.
Made a small post about it today.
Maybe try a similar filter I installed on all of my ABB VFDs/disable the internal EMC filter if you can on your VFD.
Made a small post about it today.
Maybe try a similar filter I installed on all of my ABB VFDs/disable the internal EMC filter if you can on your VFD.
Lovely job, the next drill I get will be the same
Agroshield
Member
- Messages
- 6,009
With your edit, I think you have realised the weakness in the link you make between effect (RCD tripping) and cause.
If the VFD is switched on but is idle (i.e. its output is zero), you should be able to dead short the three phases and nothing happen.
If, when its output is low, anything at all is coming out of the VFD, then that would point to a VFD fault.
Even so, you should even be able to switch the VFD output high with the phases shorted and the VFD should fault out without the RCD tripping.
You might be able to turn the rotor round in the casing, leaving the junction box at the bottom. Will only be possible it the windings are in the middle of the casing.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
I have an almost identical VFD for the Tom Senior mill, same family just the next step up in output. So I've moved the drill onto that, same cables, same config. Seemed to work ok, it was in and idle state for an hour while I painted a rolling frame I made a few years ago, I went into the office to write this and off went the RCD. Next step is to replace the power lead as that is common to both tests in case the insulation is breaking down somewhere.
Interesting, I may do something similar. First I'm going to shorten all the cables as they are longer than needed. I'm using screened SY cable on the 3 phase output, I'll double check the earth connections as one I didn't solder myself.
I have the same VFD working in my wood lathe, but this time the VFD is inside the metal case. So far, no problems, but I haven't used it that much. I'll turn it on over lunch and see what happens.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
The plot thickens!
While I was having lunch, the wood lathe VFD tripped the RCD while idle, I have never noticed this before, however I tend to use it then switch it off.
This is the lathe
and here's the WEG cold plate VFD, no noisy fan so doesn't get full of wood dust and same model as the other 2, possibly a different sizing.
Looking at the EMC diagram in the manual, I can see where there is a potential for earth leakage, the earth inside the dotted box. between the 2 capacitors.
I can't see any obvious way of disabling this like @Smouser has with the his ABB VFD, but I'm still reading.
The RCD is a Contactum B type, with a 30mA trip. I could try a time delayed RCD which should be a bit more forgiving. I had a similar problem when installing my diesel generator I seem to remember.
So, I don't think its a faulty VFD, but rather a characteristic of them. I didn't have issues with a Mitsubishi or Allen Bradley drives in the past. I buy the WEG as I hate superfluous fan noises. I also don't see anybody with similar issues on line so beginning to think it maybe more my set up.
EDIT - looking at this link from Inverter Supermarket, where I usually buy most of my motors and drives from, it looks like a type A breaker may be preferred for single phase drives. I think I'll have a chat with my spark before doing anything else, he's mainly industrial and may have some experience of this before.
Cheers
Andy
While I was having lunch, the wood lathe VFD tripped the RCD while idle, I have never noticed this before, however I tend to use it then switch it off.
This is the lathe
and here's the WEG cold plate VFD, no noisy fan so doesn't get full of wood dust and same model as the other 2, possibly a different sizing.
Looking at the EMC diagram in the manual, I can see where there is a potential for earth leakage, the earth inside the dotted box. between the 2 capacitors.
I can't see any obvious way of disabling this like @Smouser has with the his ABB VFD, but I'm still reading.
The RCD is a Contactum B type, with a 30mA trip. I could try a time delayed RCD which should be a bit more forgiving. I had a similar problem when installing my diesel generator I seem to remember.
So, I don't think its a faulty VFD, but rather a characteristic of them. I didn't have issues with a Mitsubishi or Allen Bradley drives in the past. I buy the WEG as I hate superfluous fan noises. I also don't see anybody with similar issues on line so beginning to think it maybe more my set up.
EDIT - looking at this link from Inverter Supermarket, where I usually buy most of my motors and drives from, it looks like a type A breaker may be preferred for single phase drives. I think I'll have a chat with my spark before doing anything else, he's mainly industrial and may have some experience of this before.
Cheers
Andy
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
I've had a chat with my spark, he recommends I get a type A 30mA trip RCD. If I go for the 100mA trip then my workshop sockets will be out of spec as its got to be 30mA. So we will give that a go first, if that fails then we may put a separate supply into the workshop for VFDs only, a bit of a pain but every day is a school day.
Smouser
Member
- Messages
- 1,214
- Location
- Amesbury, Wiltshire, UK
I hope it works for you. RCDs/RCCBs do not like interference which causes nuisance tripping.
Alternatively, try one of those single phase filters on one VFD to see if it solves your problem too.
They are not very expensive but if you need to buy a load of them it can soon add up.
RS components has loads to chose from.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
The spark came, changed out the RCD for an A type, had a cup of tea and about 10 mins after turning the VFD on, it tripped the RCD.
The spark's opinion is that there are quite a few MCBs for various circuits on that RCD and there is probably an amount of leakage already, and the VFD is just tipping it over the edge. So we turned them all off except the workshop ring, left it for half an hour, and nothing tripped. he could have started to measure stuff but I think this is good enough. Its been an hour and nothing has tripped.
So, the plan is to swap out the old plastic split load consumer unit for a new metal one with RCBO for each circuit. Its something I wanted done anyway, its just accelerated it. While he's doing that, he's going to put in a couple more 3 phase sockets for me for the machines I don't want speed control on.
The spark's opinion is that there are quite a few MCBs for various circuits on that RCD and there is probably an amount of leakage already, and the VFD is just tipping it over the edge. So we turned them all off except the workshop ring, left it for half an hour, and nothing tripped. he could have started to measure stuff but I think this is good enough. Its been an hour and nothing has tripped.
So, the plan is to swap out the old plastic split load consumer unit for a new metal one with RCBO for each circuit. Its something I wanted done anyway, its just accelerated it. While he's doing that, he's going to put in a couple more 3 phase sockets for me for the machines I don't want speed control on.
brewdexta
The biggest tool in the box
- Messages
- 5,737
- Location
- UK
I forgot to add that we found the culprit. Once we moved circuits onto individual RCBOs, only one was tripping intermittently, that was the one with pellet boiler on. It appears that the igniter on the pellet boiler was on its way out. I swapped that out and it all stopped, so it must have had a bit of earth leakage and the VFDs exacerbated the issue making the RCD trip sporadically. I now have 3 VFDs on the same RCBO with no issues.
