Meanwhile, at sea...

[tom2207]

The very one
Have a read about the true story Whiskey Galore was based on , its not half as twee as the movie, its quite an interesting story .

https://scotchwhisky.com/magazine/features/8384/the-true-story-behind-whisky-galore/

 

[James1979]

There were some landed in Norfolk/ Suffolk too. BMWs that it.

it’s to do with where you recover it from. Below a point (High Water?) it belongs to the owner and above it’s the crowns. Either way you have to report it, to the Royal Estate or the owner. I believe you can request a salvage fee if you give it back but if you just nick ir then it’s theft wherever you found it.

loads of people were scrapping over wood found on a Norfolk beach about 10 years back. Mate got a trailer full. By the time it was dry enough to be of any use it wasn’t even fit for firewood. All bent and warped.

timber carriers have, by law, to have a remote operating release mechanism for deck cargo in case it gets saturated and affects the stability during the passage.

 

[addjunkie]

Scary really to anyone who has worked or played on the sea. Odd though how both ships dont have racking to full stack height. Logically if the top few move a little its going to change the forces massivly from the base design.

Though the skipper will probably get the blame, if its happened twice, its more likley a design fault.

The sea is a very powerful beast, and getting bigger and bigger ships is all about the tight margins they work too. Is biggest always best.

 

[colnerov]

Wasnt there some containers full of BMW motorbikes washed up in Devon.....and people were prosecuted for taking them?

Hi, Branscombe beach Devon Jan 23 2007.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/jan/23/pollution.uknews

Colin

 

[frank horton]

I thought that most Cruise ships were TO top heavy.....some are monsters.....scary.....
cant afford it anyway plus the wife gets sea sick in the bath.....hahaha.....
we got 3 ferries comming here...Pockets full of Doubled up plastic shopping bags were the order of the day plus cleaning up the poo from the 3 B/Collies......hahah..
seem to remember a round the world yacht racer was sunk by a submerged container somewhere in the southern 40's......

 

[James1979]

Scary really to anyone who has worked or played on the sea. Odd though how both ships dont have racking to full stack height. Logically if the top few move a little its going to change the forces massivly from the base design.

Though the skipper will probably get the blame, if its happened twice, its more likley a design fault.

The sea is a very powerful beast, and getting bigger and bigger ships is all about the tight margins they work too. Is biggest always best.

Thing with racking is unless you use it all and ballast accordingly it makes the relationship between the Centre of Gravity and the point about which the ship moves (not the same points) either neutral which is bad or negative which is really bad! At least when the ship is emptier the number remains positive. They are locked together by twist locks.

as an aside, the relationship ‘GM’ which is the distance between the centre of gravity (G) and the point about which the ship moves (M) is averagely about 0.3m on an empty bulk fuel carrier. That is to say M is about 30cm above the C of G. Not much room for error when you think about moving fuel, stores, water etc about. A passenger catamaran has a GM of 30m! Ie it moves around a point 30m above it. That’s why it’s stable.

 

[James1979]

There’s 30 containers off here as of last weeks storm. Still on notices to mariners today.

 

[atomant48]

A few RN ships have ended up in dry dock after clouting a submerged container - the main active sonar array is on the front in a dome and gets the brunt of any collisions.

If only they turned it on !!

 

[Munkul]

Am I right in saying that containers are only locked together top and bottom? Because it always seems that these mishaps occur and you see columns of containers leaning/falling, presumably without any interlocking between them, or only intermittently.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that surely locking top, bottom and two sides would stiffen the stack up to the point that it couldn't possibly collapse... it might capsize the ship, though!

 

[bricol]

Am I right in saying that containers are only locked together top and bottom? Because it always seems that these mishaps occur and you see columns of containers leaning/falling, presumably without any interlocking between them, or only intermittently.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that surely locking top, bottom and two sides would stiffen the stack up to the point that it couldn't possibly collapse... it might capsize the ship, though!

How you going to get the side by side locks in? If you can work it out, and how to do it fast and reliably . . .

 

[James1979]

Am I right in saying that containers are only locked together top and bottom? Because it always seems that these mishaps occur and you see columns of containers leaning/falling, presumably without any interlocking between them, or only intermittently.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that surely locking top, bottom and two sides would stiffen the stack up to the point that it couldn't possibly collapse... it might capsize the ship, though!

They should be twist locked throughout then deck lashings fitted as per the loading plan.
It’s calculated on the vessel type, weight of stack, height of stack, sea conditions etc etc. Far beyond my remit. It takes someone clever with an ology to work that out. I’ the monkey with the spanner that just keep ‘em moving forward

if you are really bored.....
https://www.standard-club.com/media/24168/amastersguidetocontainersecuring2ndedition-3.pdf

 

[TechnicAl]

Hi, Branscombe beach Devon Jan 23 2007.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/jan/23/pollution.uknews

Colin

I seem to recall that we were on holiday in Sidmouth just after it happened....we used to go to the festival

 

[slim_boy_fat]

the main active sonar array is on the front in a dome

Which presumably doesn't work?

 

[Rannsachair]

The very one
Have a read about the true story Whiskey Galore was based on , its not half as twee as the movie, its quite an interesting story .

https://scotchwhisky.com/magazine/features/8384/the-true-story-behind-whisky-galore/

interesting read, I had not heard about the cash.

 

[addjunkie]

Thing with racking is unless you use it all and ballast accordingly it makes the relationship between the Centre of Gravity and the point about which the ship moves (not the same points) either neutral which is bad or negative which is really bad! At least when the ship is emptier the number remains positive. They are locked together by twist locks.

as an aside, the relationship ‘GM’ which is the distance between the centre of gravity (G) and the point about which the ship moves (M) is averagely about 0.3m on an empty bulk fuel carrier. That is to say M is about 30cm above the C of G. Not much room for error when you think about moving fuel, stores, water etc about. A passenger catamaran has a GM of 30m! Ie it moves around a point 30m above it. That’s why it’s stable.

I understand the theory, or at least I did when I studied it for my tickets, but must admit I never did the box boat experience. It just seems odd that two ships in a similar design, operated by the same company, obviously under the same operating procedures have had the same issues. I agree one stack tipping in bad weather would suggest broken fixings, but multiple stacks toppled. Then again it could be in the design from them to break free to save the ship from doing a barrel roll in rough seas. Point I was trying to make earlier if they were all in racks there is less likely hood of them moving, as for the loading plan, stability calculations, the structure and its location would accounted for so in theory should not affect the stability.

 

[James1979]

I understand the theory, or at least I did when I studied it for my tickets, but must admit I never did the box boat experience. It just seems odd that two ships in a similar design, operated by the same company, obviously under the same operating procedures have had the same issues. I agree one stack tipping in bad weather would suggest broken fixings, but multiple stacks toppled. Then again it could be in the design from them to break free to save the ship from doing a barrel roll in rough seas. Point I was trying to make earlier if they were all in racks there is less likely hood of them moving, as for the loading plan, stability calculations, the structure and its location would accounted for so in theory should not affect the stability.

There is much less likelihood of them moving in racks you’re right. Not sure why it’s not used as a solution. I know the industry prefers the design a flat deck as it’s quicker to load and unload them I’m told.

The ins and outs are not my remit really. Like you it’s theory I’ve done but not needed to put into practice. It’s normally a deckie problem

 

[Gritineye]

if you are really bored.....
https://www.standard-club.com/media/24168/amastersguidetocontainersecuring2ndedition-3.pdf

Thanks, I'll remember just enough of that to give dangerous misleading advice!

 

[addjunkie]

There is much less likelihood of them moving in racks you’re right. Not sure why it’s not used as a solution. I know the industry prefers the design a flat deck as it’s quicker to load and unload them I’m told.

The ins and outs are not my remit really. Like you it’s theory I’ve done but not needed to put into practice. It’s normally a deckie problem

You may have hit the nail on the head. "Cost", as with most things time is money. And some engineer has done many big sums to say no racking meets what ever standard hes working too. Shipping stuff across the world works on very very low margins, probably lower still now due to less market demand, so saving a few quid in port fees, etc is a big thing

.if you are really bored.....
https://www.standard-club.com/media/24168/amastersguidetocontainersecuring2ndedition-3.pdf

If your struggling to sleep it may be a good read, but if you want a more useful one to help you sleep try meteorology. Never managed a page with my eyes going.

 

[fizzy]

Many years ago a friend got a chance to recover a 20ft container , basically he tied it to the back of a 60ft fishing boat ,,,, steamed full ahead for about six hours and moved very little.
Last numbers I was told was about 10,000 containers a year are lost , its a number that always stuck in my mind , especially when doing night passages solo , and they sit so low you wont see them on radar .
Its not that long ago folk were lifting BMWs off the beach down south some where ,,

It used to be a major problem but down to about 300 a year now. This will skew the averages considerably.
Container ships are actually very stable - just as many stacked down below. It's those stupid car transporters that are dangerous.

Great view from the bottom of the hold which is about 30' below sea level.

The scale is totally mind boggling!

 

[daleyd]

Which presumably doesn't work?

Lol - it works very (very very) well, but as a general rule you wouldn’t go around with it “on” unless you were specifically looking for a submarine. It makes a horrible high pitched squeal which isn’t particularly pleasant for whales/dolphins or the crew, though you tended to get used to it after a while