Maypole Turbo Mig 130

[arresttwo007]

Hi folks, just wondering if anyone here is familiar with this machine?

I got it FOC, its never worked great tbh.

The main attachment for the cord at the machine end was broken, the cord and gun are not the original, it was sort of cobbled together... poorly. The bracket to attach the cord is a piece of angle... held on with one bolt, so the slightest bump misaligns the whole thing with the feeder.

So thats number 1 job, get that mounted solid, even if just temporary while I consider other options.

The wire feeder looks like yer pretty typical SIP type I've seen in other threads on here, will benefit from a bracer for sure as I can see the upper pivot and the lower serated wheel mount spreading under pressure.

Feeding, while not great, isn't the best and just making things harder for me - I'm working through old threads on here to scavenge ideas.

Might poss convert to Euro but I'd like to at least have an idea that the base unit is going to work well before going to that.

I'm not entirely trusting that the gas is flowing well from up the cord and out of the tip. Theres a solenoid for the flow in the machine, but no valve inside the gun itself. Am I right in thinking this means arc starting is always going to be hit or miss since theres nothing to stop shielding gas oozing out the end of the torch while not in use / between welds?

I've been mostly using it with gasless wire so I don't even need to consider this issue for now. Welds are very hard to get decent to be honest... while I'm no expert I know its not me because I had no problem with the college machines many moons ago.

Also, the polarity I am assuming is set for shielding gas and plain wire, just how much of a difference does reversing it (like I'm reading you are meant to everywhere) make when using flux cored wire?

Sorry for all the questions! If anyone is familiar with this machine it would be a great help... just so I know how much might be relevant from mods done on other machines!

 

[eddie49]

The solenoid ( gas valve ) in the machine is there to control the flow of shielding gas. The valve should open when you press the trigger on the MIG torch, the gas will flow up the torch lead to the tip and the shroud. At the same time, the wirefeed motor will start, and the main contactor ( large heavy-duty relay ) will pull in, to apply mains power to the primary of the welding transformer. [ On some machines, the contactor is on the secondary side of the transformer. In that case, you will see that all the contact pairs are paralleled-up to handle the current.] When you release the torch trigger, the coil voltage to the gas valve will drop, the valve will close, and the flow of gas through the torch lead will stop. There will not be a gas valve in the torch.

If the machine was originally configured for solid wire with shelding gas, the MIG torch lead will be connected to the positive output of the rectifier, and the work return lead and clamp ( "Earth" ) will be connected to the negative, probably via the inductor.
For flux-core, self-shielding, gasless wire, you need to reverse those two connections, making the torch negative. Some machines make it easy, with jumpers or even plugs and sockets. If that option is not built-in, you can still do it, but you will have to unbolt and swap the connections inside the machine.
You can confirm the actual polarity by using a DC voltmeter between the torch tip and the work clamp. It should measure about 15v DC on the lowest setting, rising to 30v DC on the highest power range. If the "wrong" polarity is used, it will still "weld", but the results will not be ideal.

 

[Munkul]

It will spatter much more with wrong polarity on flux core. But this also depends on wire quality, as well. I'd get that gun cable sorted out first, it may be causing all kinds of symptoms. Then swap polarity.

 

[arresttwo007]

The solenoid ( gas valve ) in the machine is there to control the flow of shielding gas. The valve should open when you press the trigger on the MIG torch, the gas will flow up the torch lead to the tip and the shroud. At the same time, the wirefeed motor will start, and the main contactor ( large heavy-duty relay ) will pull in, to apply mains power to the primary of the welding transformer. [ On some machines, the contactor is on the secondary side of the transformer. In that case, you will see that all the contact pairs are paralleled-up to handle the current.] When you release the torch trigger, the coil voltage to the gas valve will drop, the valve will close, and the flow of gas through the torch lead will stop. There will not be a gas valve in the torch.

If the machine was originally configured for solid wire with shelding gas, the MIG torch lead will be connected to the positive output of the rectifier, and the work return lead and clamp ( "Earth" ) will be connected to the negative, probably via the inductor.
For flux-core, self-shielding, gasless wire, you need to reverse those two connections, making the torch negative. Some machines make it easy, with jumpers or even plugs and sockets. If that option is not built-in, you can still do it, but you will have to unbolt and swap the connections inside the machine.
You can confirm the actual polarity by using a DC voltmeter between the torch tip and the work clamp. It should measure about 15v DC on the lowest setting, rising to 30v DC on the highest power range. If the "wrong" polarity is used, it will still "weld", but the results will not be ideal.

Thanks for taking the time to write that buddy, really appreciated!

It has the solenoid etc and is definitely letting gas through, on command at that point. I just dont trust the cord tbh.

I know you say that the gun doesn't need a gas valve, and I get what the solenoid does, but surely that means the gas has potentially got to travel up ~3m of umbilical to start shielding the weld, before the weld will be viable? So, depending how long the torch has been sitting between welds, that gas in the umbilical could have dispersed? Hence my thinking that a simple push button valve in the gun wouldn't be a bad idea regardless - to keep a collumn of shielding gas right on tap a couple of inches from the tip

Or is that just not required in reality if the flow up the umbilical is good?

Thats where most of my concern is, along with the liner probably being done (and its plastic).

I'll check the polarity later so I know for sure, but it definitely looks like a unit that was intended to run shielding gas from the get go, so I'm guessing its wrong for flux core.

Only slight confusion I have is that the cord thats been fitted is two wire, but there is only one wire connection in the torch to trigger the whole process. It currently connects to the main torch power feed upon closing. If I reverse the connections, then it will be connecting to ground, and I imagine not hellish much will happen. I guess I could use the second wire in the cord (currently not in use) to make it so it always connects to the +ve as per, upon switch closing. Obviously I'll need to change the switching in the gun too - does that sound right?

Theres no easy way to change polarity in this, but I'm thinking I could use some connectors in the two main lines that can make it quick and easy to change.

Main thing is I got it for free, if I can get it looking like it works well for next to nothing except a little time, then good times! And would maybe then warrant spending a little bit of money on it if it could be improved further.

I'm just conscious of spending anything on it right now if it might be a useless heap, when that money could go towards something decent from the get go - the age old conundrum!

Thanks again for your time buddy, sincerely appreciated!

 

[arresttwo007]

It will spatter much more with wrong polarity on flux core. But this also depends on wire quality, as well. I'd get that gun cable sorted out first, it may be causing all kinds of symptoms. Then swap polarity.

Cheers for taking the time to reply!

Definitely noticing a lot of spatter, but didn't know if that was just the nature of flux cored stuff - I'll do exactly as you say first, sort out the cord and its mount properly, because nothing is going to work well while thats a mess!

Then can play with polarity and what not a little after.

Like I said above, I got this free, but don't want to put any money into it until I know its actually going to be half decent... thats money that could go to a better machine if this one is just a lost cause!

But I don't mind putting some time into it fettling and playing around, and don't mind low cost spends like for consumables, liners etc to try out

 

[MoreWellie]

surely that means the gas has potentially got to travel up ~3m of umbilical to start shielding the weld,

Correct, if I have left my machine for some time I flip the clamp for the wire feed roller off, pull the trigger for a few seconds and then flip the wire clamp on and good to go

a few machines have a purge button to gas flow without activating the feed motor but I am happy doing it the way I have described

I don't have a sip but people seem to get ok service out of them when they are in good condition and perhaps with the feed mods that are described elsewhere on here

might be worth considering changing the torch liner and/or tip before junking the whole machine

 

[eddie49]

Regarding the trigger switch wire sending the wrong polarity signal to the control PCB if you reverse the MIG torch polarity: yes, you are correct, this can cause a problem. Here is an earlier thread about this issue:
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/clarke-151-en-turbo.91583/page-2
In your case, you have two wires in the torch cable, so I guess that the switch inside the torch is a real microswitch, with a moving contact and a fixed contact. The cheaper torches just have a copper leaf spring that gets pushed onto the brass block of the torch neck. With a real switch, if you do reverse the MIG torch polarity, you can swap the thin wires over on the PCB end to send a signal of the correct polarity to the control logic.

 

[arresttwo007]

Thanks for the replies guys, thats gave me plenty to go on to see if I can get this thing working acceptably for now - I'll get my sleeves rolled up!

I'll no doubt be back here in a few days with a picture of a welder that has quite obviously exploded, asking if anything can be done to fix it

 

[arresttwo007]

Just confirmed, it is definitely set up to be used with shielding gas - earth clamp -ve, torch +ve.

Single wire switch although two in the umbilical. Only a single wire in the machine end, so a little trickier to get the switching sorted with polarity reversed but I can see a couple of ways to go about it and am fairly confident I could rig it up so the polarity could be changed as an when.

Liner (plastic) absolutely past it - steel one ordered.

fabricating a proper mount for the machine end of the cord, that with the strap on the feeder and the new liner I'm HOPING will get feeding a lot nicer?

Also, as I suspected, the gas flow was next to non existent. It seems the flare on the swan neck liner was blocking it - remember this machine has been cobbled together from up to three machines - base unit, different umbilical, different torch, at a guess.

Question - does a seperate liner in the swan neck NEED to be used, or could I just extend my steel liner up to behind the tip? It was specifically the sort of flared end on the swan neck liner that was compromising gas flow - Im thinking if I can just send the liner right up to tip, then no flare, gas will flow?

Or am I looking at it too simplistically?

 

[arresttwo007]

Well I've been working away on this, when I get the time - which is rarely. Currently watch my 4yo full time!

Got a wee wire feed bracer made up like recommended by many on here, its absolutely solid - amazing the difference in rigidity:





Also cobbled this together so I can change polarity to my hearts content - yeah I know I could have used dinse plugs, but I had all this stuff to hand, and its only a tad less convenient:









I just need to break into the relevant wiring and hook the panel up from behind, then I'm sorted.

I'm also going to fit a switch I think, to disable the wire feed - I could poss use stick off this now, as well as some coarse scratch start "Texas Tig" I'm thinking, with Argon and a cheap gun

I did bite the bullet and order a Euro socket and gun - the gun that came with this, apart from being wrecked, was from a different machine, and the whip was from a different machine again. Just cheap ones, so not much of a spend. Got the welder free anyway, and, if it doesn't work together the gun could always be kept for another machine in the future.

Hoping the new whip comes with a metal feed liner, if not I have one spare so hopefully will be able to use that.

If the machine actually seems to work well after that, I'll strip the casing, and de-rust it, give it some fresh paint... because why not lol

If its still rubbish, I'll look into seperate power supply for the feeder I reckon. Im not too clued up on that side of things, but this forum is awesome!

 

[arresttwo007]

Anyone who knows about these things - here is the internals.

Am I right in assuming it doesn't have separate power to the feed motor?

I've seen machines with two transformers like that, that people have still modded to have separate power, so I assume not.

If anyone has a wiring diagram for this, I'd be super appreciative - I'm guessing its the same as some SIP machine, but I just don't know.

Hacking into the main +ve \ -ve is easy, as is making the single trigger wire into double wire, but beyond that I'm hesitant!

A man needs to know his limits



Not the best pic, I can get more - was getting dark and I couldn't be bother humphing the unit inside lol

 

[eddie49]

One of the two large transformer'ish items is in fact the inductor, or choke. It has only a single winding of thick wire, and is used to stabilise the welding output current. The power for the wirefeed motor may be derived from a small black plastic-potted mains transformer on the control PCB. You could check the PCB for that kind of component - but, in the absence of a circuit diagram ( I haven't found one ), you would also need to trace the motor power wiring.
Some people have improved the wirefeed performance on this type of MIG by using an external stabilised 12 or 24 v DC power supply, a more precise Pulse Width Modulated ( PWM ) motor speed controller, and even a complete new wirefeed assembly.

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/sip-drive-motor.87311/

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-...-Controller-with-Control-Knob-LW/312185637261

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welding-...embly-Wire-Feeder-Motor-Mig-Q9X1/323846849552

It is debatable how cost-effective these kinds of upgrades are when the starting point is a basic, low-end machine.

I'm also going to fit a switch I think, to disable the wire feed - I could poss use stick off this now, as well as some coarse scratch start "Texas Tig" I'm thinking, with Argon and a cheap gun

I'm afraid that disabling the wirefeed will not turn a MIG welder into an Arc/TIG welder. The design of the welding power source is different - a MIG provides a constant voltage ( CV ) supply, whereas Arc and TIG welding need constant current ( CC ). This article from Lincoln Electric explains it:

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-...stant-current-vs-constant-coltage-output.aspx

Additionally, MIG welders typically output from 14 to 30 volts DC, but an Arc welding rod needs double that voltage to strike.

 

[arresttwo007]

One of the two large transformer'ish items is in fact the inductor, or choke. It has only a single winding of thick wire, and is used to stabilise the welding output current. The power for the wirefeed motor may be derived from a small black plastic-potted mains transformer on the control PCB. You could check the PCB for that kind of component - but, in the absence of a circuit diagram ( I haven't found one ), you would also need to trace the motor power wiring.
Some people have improved the wirefeed performance on this type of MIG by using an external stabilised 12 or 24 v DC power supply, a more precise Pulse Width Modulated ( PWM ) motor speed controller, and even a complete new wirefeed assembly.

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/sip-drive-motor.87311/

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-24V-...-Controller-with-Control-Knob-LW/312185637261

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welding-...embly-Wire-Feeder-Motor-Mig-Q9X1/323846849552

It is debatable how cost-effective these kinds of upgrades are when the starting point is a basic, low-end machine.

Thanks buddy - it had dawned on me after posting above that the smaller looking transformer was in fact a choke. Not because I know helluva lot about these things, but because I remember my dad talking about them, from building amplifiers and such.

I think you are right RE debateable. Besides, I need to see how it is "as is" before doing anything like that - it might be acceptable for the basic use I need right now.

I might have various voltages of power supply kicking around in my workshop, but if I have to spend any sort of money like you say, probably not worth it.

I'm afraid that disabling the wirefeed will not turn a MIG welder into an Arc/TIG welder. The design of the welding power source is different - a MIG provides a constant voltage ( CV ) supply, whereas Arc and TIG welding need constant current ( CC ). This article from Lincoln Electric explains it:

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-...stant-current-vs-constant-coltage-output.aspx

Additionally, MIG welders typically output from 14 to 30 volts DC, but an Arc welding rod needs double that voltage to strike.

That was a sort of trigger comment put in to see if anyone was still reading lol!

BUT

I have seen with my own eyes someone do some very rough "TIG" off a MIG plant. If you could call it TIG... completely impractical / pain in the backside - but he held an arc, and ran a bead. More for fun and giggles tbh

but yeah, that was said tongue in cheek, lets face it, this is a basic low level home MIG - its never going to be great. If I can just get it working acceptably as such, then I'm doing well - especially for the price point I got it for.

If I want to do anything more serious than that, I'll be buying a new machine suited to the purpose. Under no illusions here

 

[a111r]

How did you get on with this MIG project, any luck?