Making bolts and screws

[MattF]

Just for those who have done this to any degree in the past, just wondering what's the best type of setup to save on shedloads of setting up and switching tools for making things like bolts and screws from raw stock? Getting hold of specifically what I want in BSW these days seems to be becoming notably harder, (especially if one dares to ask for brass fittings, and the finish of the modern production stuff tends to be sloppy too), so I'm considering dedicating a setup for making bolts and screws to the spec I want rather than just having to settle for the closest thing I can get reasonably easily. Obviously I could just do them on the lathe, but in standard setup it seems a farty and overly time consuming process, (unless I'm missing something obvious?), so I'm after some suggestions for those more experienced than I. Space is always a constraint, so the smaller the setup the better, and the general things being made would be 1/2" and below, with heads like cheese, domed, pan etc., (all slotted), and then obviously bolts made from hex stock.

Just trying to decide whether this line of thought is worthwhile pursuing or whether I'm better off just trying to find a good hardware supplier who does a good range of the older stuff.

Cheers.

 

[Spark plug]

If your wanting to make batches of the same fixing the a capstan lathe would save loads of time but would still need setting up for different jobs.

Other than that would be CNC.

It would probably be worth finding a better supplier.

 

[MrFluffy]

Most quality fasteners are rolled now, turned threads will be weaker by dint of the different processess, the rolling conditions the surface and peens the molecules giving a stronger and more uniform strength. They are just better.
If you are serious, you could still do this and you can get thread rolling equipment at a cost, but in this day and age, this is a job for a souless cnc lathe if any quantity is involved. Its easier to find a better supplier.

I'm not saying I never make a fastener, but I'd never make one I can buy for the above reason and have posted me unless its 6pm on a saturday and needed for a urgent job.

 

[rtbcomp]

If you do look for a supplier, make sure you're getting the right material - there's quite a lot of Indian firms making BSF/BSW but in mild steel.

 

[MattF]

Cheers chaps. Things like cut vs rolled threads wouldn't be a concern. Most of the stuff these would be going on have never likely seen a roll formed thread in their life. Mild probably wouldn't be a problem either. A lot of this hardware would likely have been standard iron, so mild should be similar.

Any suggestions as to good suppliers of fastener hardware? Every time I look, I usually tend to find ones who do odd bits, but I've not come across one which seems to have a fairly comprehensive range. Of the local places, one tends to have odds and sods and the other has a somewhat better range, but still somewhat limited on the brass and screw front.

 

[rtbcomp]

I've used B&D Bolts of Batley. http://www.bdbolts.co.uk/ Their website isn't up to much, but they're very helpful.

It's worth looking for job lots on online auction sites

 

[Wendelspanswick]

If you already have a lathe it might be worth getting a capstan tool post for it.

 

[piman]

Hello Matt,

I would say that making brass fasteners is fairly quick and easy on the lathe as it turns so easily. If you grind special parting off tools to form the head, this will save another machining process. Also try and find a die box as they save a lot of time in forming the threads. Obviously, you will need a miller to slot the heads efficiently.

Alec

 

[candor]

If you want to make a few of them just use a suitable die, far quicker than cutting on a lathe.

 

[Wallace]

I have used Margnor in the past for Metric and UNF, they also stock some BSW & BSF. Worth asking for specific sizes not listed on their website.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

My local steel supplier has some bsw stuff in but can order anything still.

Dan

 

[CRB]

Hello Matt,

I would say that making brass fasteners is fairly quick and easy on the lathe as it turns so easily. If you grind special parting off tools to form the head, this will save another machining process. Also try and find a die box as they save a lot of time in forming the threads. Obviously, you will need a miller to slot the heads efficiently.

Alec

Rear toolpost would mean you can cut from three directions too.

You can slot the heads in the lathe, depending on the length of the fastener, using a slitting saw between centres.

Cutting blanks to length, then slotting, then using a lantern fixture is another method, but may not be suitable in this instance.

 

[MattF]

Their website isn't up to much....

That must be the understatement of the year. On the plus side. it ain't a dog to navigate like most. Cheers. I'll give them a shout and see what they stock.

It's worth looking for job lots on online auction sites

I have been considering similar of late. It's just trying to find the stuff at reasonable prices that's the hard bit. Imperial and Ebay are generally a bad combination, price wise.

If you already have a lathe it might be worth getting a capstan tool post for it.

Not got one up and running at the moment, but it shouldn't be long before one is, if things go to plan. Can the capstan posts be readily adapted to fit a machine, provided the existing centre height is less or same as the machine it's going on? Never had a play with one of those as yet, so not sure what they're like on the base fixture.

I would say that making brass fasteners is fairly quick and easy on the lathe as it turns so easily. If you grind special parting off tools to form the head, this will save another machining process.

Cheers. Hadn't considered that. It'd definitely cut down on time, forming and parting together.

Also try and find a die box as they save a lot of time in forming the threads. Obviously, you will need a miller to slot the heads efficiently.

How are the die heads used? Never had occasion to use one of those upto just, though I have seen them. Are they used in the same manner as you would a die in say a tailstock holder, or does their usage differ?

If you want to make a few of them just use a suitable die, far quicker than cutting on a lathe.

That's usually the method I resort to on the odd jobs. Figured that if I made a run at doing a batch though, I'd be better off trying to find a slightly more efficient method.

I have used Margnor in the past for Metric and UNF, they also stock some BSW & BSF. Worth asking for specific sizes not listed on their website.

Cheers. Looks like I'm out of luck with brass there, but they appear to have a reasonable collection of steel.

My local steel supplier has some bsw stuff in but can order anything still.

Any hint as to whom they are? Out of the two local hardware places round here, one tells me that when their stock of Imperial has gone it's gone, (I swear, they've been saying that for knocking on twenty years now ), and the other is generally a "we have it or we don't" type place.

Rear toolpost would mean you can cut from three directions too.

You can slot the heads in the lathe, depending on the length of the fastener, using a slitting saw between centres.

Cutting blanks to length, then slotting, then using a lantern fixture is another method, but may not be suitable in this instance.

What's a lantern fixture? That's one I can't recall ever having seen.


Thanks for the help and advice everyone. It's appreciated.

 

[MattF]

Just on a slight tangent, what's the proper name for this type of screw/bolt, but with a plain, unthreaded portion below the head? For the life of me I can't remember what they're called.

 

[Robotstar5]

A set screw - link

 

[MattF]

Set screws are that type as in the photo, with a full length thread? Assuming I read that link correctly, that is.

 

[CRB]

Lantern fixture/chuck.http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=66771

Just a quick search, but you can make all the sections to suit each different requirement.

I am sure Sparey has a section on them. If required I can scan the pages tonight/tomorrow.

 

[rtbcomp]

............
I have been considering similar of late. It's just trying to find the stuff at reasonable prices that's the hard bit. Imperial and Ebay are generally a bad combination, price wise.

........................

I've just seen 370 Kg of brand new UNF nuts & bolts go for £52.00, cost me someone the best part of £1000 when new.

 

[Maker]

Just on a slight tangent, what's the proper name for this type of screw/bolt, but with a plain, unthreaded portion below the head? For the life of me I can't remember what they're called.

The ones without the unthreaded portion are called full thread, as far as I know, the ones with this section are just called plain/regular/standard. You can get also shoulder screws where the unthreaded portion is a greater diameter than the thread if that helps.

I've just seen 370 Kg of brand new UNF nuts & bolts go for £52.00, cost me someone the best part of £1000 when new.

You someone, would have gotten more for it if you they had sold them separately, or in packets of a few, it just takes longer to sell them all.

 

[rtbcomp]

He knows that. He used to run a mail-order business selling bolting kits for Landrovers, but Post Office closures, car theives and Cornhill-Allianz conspired to put him out of business.