Looking for some MIG/TIG advice

[Sam Parry]

Hi all. First time poster here and I'm after some advice if anyone would be so kind to offer it!

I've done so much reading on the topic between MIG and TIG and which one would suit my needs I've confused myself. There seems to be such strong arguments for both!

I'm looking to do a cafe racer build and want to do some slight frame modification and tab addition ect. I'm also looking to do some other projects (probably before i endanger myself on a motorbike frame) such as a coffee table, workbench and leading onto a motorcycle trailer.

A bit of my background - I'm a time served MOD electronic engineer where I learnt to solder to a military standard. I understand this doesn't exactly translate to welding but will hopefully contribute towards to mindset of creating a lovely weld!

The stuff I've read about TIG scares me a little! the preparation of the Tungsten and the pristine condition requirements of the metal, not to mention the difficult technique. But the look and control of the weld is something that draws me in! The price of TIG with foot pedals is also a bit scary! (although from my research a foot pedal isnt necessary when starting out?)

The MIG seems beneficial as I could get set up and going on projects a bit quicker as it is a little easier and could do some aluminium welding in the future without and expensive AC DC TIG.

I think I may be aiming towards dialing in the TIG technique as I may reap more benefits further down the road.

I have a budget of about £400 for the welder itself and was looking at using R-tech due to the finance deals!

Any advice from you experienced welders out there would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Sam.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Hi Sam and welcome to the forum.

I'm about to embark on trying TIG on my R-Tech 180 but it'll take me a few weeks to get organised with the pure Argon etc needed.

I'm expecting a steep learning curve, being a very fresh learner at welding. I found MIG easier than MMA with the machine but have to ask what' your level of experience in welding. I built a trolley for all the gear after some practising, but wouldn't trust myself to produce anything structural for a long time, esp something which might come apart and kill me or someone else.

Just a thought......

 

[eSCHEn]

TIG's not as bad as all that Sam and is a very rewarding process.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, R-Tech is not the only place with finance, these chaps do it as well with a wider brand spread: http://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/tig-welding/tig-welders.html

 

[Sam Parry]

Sorry I didnt make that clear! I have literally no welding experience!

Cheers eSCHEn ill check them out.

 

[eSCHEn]

Depending on the metal you want to fuse, a DC TIG setup with no pedal is relatively inexpensive and more than capable of producing awesome welds on mild and stainless. I'd be practising a lot if you're doing frame mods

If you want ally then yes, AC TIG is the easiest and most practical way to go about that but as you've no doubt seen, they are very expensive.

MIG will do all of the above jobs (as will TIG) but it's not my area so will gracefully bow to SWK.

What have you budgeted for gas and PPE?

 

[Sam Parry]

Just as much as I need to be able to weld safely. Going to invest in an auto darkening helmet as I've heard they are the way to go. Is the price for the pure argon for TIG comparable for the co2 mix for MIG?

It would also be cool to weld stainless exhaust!

 

[Freddy0309]

For me it would be tig every time, although I'm set up to weld stainless and ally with mig I still reach for the tig welder. Just wondering if there's any where local that you could try the various processes or an introduction to welding course.

 

[eSCHEn]

Pure Ar is more expensive than mixes for MIG/MAG. Pure CO2 is the cheapest route on MAG but has a lot of spatter.

Either go with one of the rent free options or, if you can use the gas, then the forum (Volkszone) deal is the very cheapest in terms of how much gas per fill you get. The rental does need to be considered though.

 

[Kent]

Whatever you choose you are going to need a lot more training and practice than you might realise before you get onto doing that bike - I am really talking a proper pro training course to the level
Your hoping to be trusting your life and the life of other road users on those welds holding up to the daily tresses of potholes and turns etc

A coffee table and a bike frame are like so far apart it's untrue

Imo forget the finance route. Save up and get Reading etc this way you will answer your own question as regards what process

 

[Sam Parry]

Haha cheers for your completely unhelpful advice.

For the record I understand the importance of the strength of a bike frame having been an avid rider for years. Also have you ever tried to ride a coffee table? it might be surprisingly stable? Also who wouldn't want to drink coffee and ride at the same time? I might scrap the cafe racer project and do a coffee (table) racer instead!

I have also done tonnes of reading on the subject as that's what I do when attempting to do anything properly. I just wanted some real world advice as to what process would fit the range of stuff I'd like to do.

I cant do a course because I work 4 on 4 off shifts days and nights so I wouldn't be able to make it most of the time.

Think I'm going to go with MIG anyway as its less overall faffing.

 

[Jim Davey]

Take the advice in the sprit it was intended. If you can master Tig it's a more suitable process for high integrity tubular welding applications and it's very versatile.
Of course you can do it any way you want, but why try to re-invent the wheel? You are not breaking new ground here, there are lots of frame builders out there and with few exceptions they favour tig unless they are using robots and even then they can and do use Tig.

 

[Kent]

Haha cheers for your completely unhelpful advice.

For the record I understand the importance of the strength of a bike frame having been an avid rider for years. Also have you ever tried to ride a coffee table? it might be surprisingly stable? Also who wouldn't want to drink coffee and ride at the same time? I might scrap the cafe racer project and do a coffee (table) racer instead!

I have also done tonnes of reading on the subject as that's what I do when attempting to do anything properly. I just wanted some real world advice as to what process would fit the range of stuff I'd like to do.

I cant do a course because I work 4 on 4 off shifts days and nights so I wouldn't be able to make it most of the time.


Think I'm going to go with MIG anyway as its less overall faffing.

Sorry
Some of us do this for a living and frankly without a real good hand on trainer ( some guys are unbelievably good what they can get pupils doing in a full week)
Welding and fabricating to bike frame standards is years in the making
Some never make it - don't know why but have met many a pro welder I wouldn't trust with much more than.the coffee table and conversely many amateurs who were good enough - after lots of training and practice

Just telling it how it is

 

[Swift&Bold]

Haha cheers for your completely unhelpful advice.

Wow! that was unexpected

I cant do a course because I work 4 on 4 off shifts days and nights so I wouldn't be able to make it most of the time.

Why should that stop you? I did a 3 year C&G course on the same shifts (not welding BTW).

 

[Charred fingers]

I'm with Jim Davey on this tig is much more versatile. As for kit I have an R tech DC 160 which is 6 years old and have had no problems. An added bonus is that I do a bit of onsite light fabrication and use it in MMA mode off a 13 amp plug.
If you can do a course then all the better, someone telling why it hasn't worked will speed up learning, other than that its just practice .I could play guitar like Eric Clapton if I practised 8 hours a day for thirty years but I don't so I won't

 

[Sam Parry]

Hi, apologies for the unhelpful advice thing... a slight harsh in hindsight.

Ill definitely look to get some 1 on 1 help from what you've all said.

Cheers all.

 

[Kent]

A bike trailer needs inspection anyhow like other trailers. BTW I often see trailers that.i wouldn't tow

 

[Kent]

I did a stainless course many years ago in Sheffield. A job requirement on a contract
Anyhow the trainer took a girl from the office at the centre and trained her- same time as all us pro welders - to be fair from which end gets hot to producing very good welds about three days
That's what I mean about good trainer! mostly it will take longer a lot longer especially with guys who already think.they can

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning gentelmen
I have a pressure pipe ticket obtained early last year. I had been doing tig for many years, primarily on S/S whilst the tig pipe ticket was on steel. Very different animal steel to S/S when you come down to it. I nearly gave up three times, in the begining before starting the course I thought I could weld. When started on the steel after a couple of attendances I was going backwards quickly. One of the trainers (welding inspector) would give me the answer not good enough. He did demonstrate and his welds were spectacular. He did mention that I did not have to exactly replicate but it had to be close. The more careful I was and the more time I took the worse it became. In the end I just went to similar settings as for S/S and just went for it. I have always been chased 'what is taking so long, harry the f@#$ up' when I welded on site and breakdowns. When I started that approach my welding improved and was told getting better. When the welding inspector whatched me weld he said slow down whats the hurry. In the end I got my ticket but only just after getting too cocky, however my technique has improved markebly on the S/S as well. Much can be attained with correct direction, patience and practice. If you cannot weld don't expect to be an expert in a couple of attempts regardless of the equipment.