Look what the Pennine climate did to my tools!

[agrimog]

is your workshop heated, if not you might have to, I find that temprature changes in the room change the dewpoint and any moisture in the air will condense out on any large metal objects, I used to be bothered by this problem and installed a couple of small tube style heaters near to my machine tools and this cured the problem, a small increase in the 'leccy bill, but piece of mind on the tool condition, an added bonus is that once the machine tools reach and maintain a constant temp, theres no variation on there acuracy

 

[brewdexta]

Hi Agrimog
The good news is that its made of 50mm kingspan insulated steel clad panels, the bad news is its 20m x 6m and it would still cost me a gold pig to heat constantly. I do have a paraffin fan heater but they create more moisture.......

 

[Shox Dr]

Put in stud wall up, there's plenty of room up there to have a purpose build room for maching. You'd reduce the size required to keep dry, and it would also keep them free from grinding etc.

 

[brewdexta]

That's an idea Dave, I shall have a think. I may be able to incorporate a bar too

 

[MattF]

That's gutting to see. Coating any exposed parts with a hard finish wax is another option. Something like a vehicle wax or the like, though sorting the cause of the problem is far more efficient and preferable.

Put in stud wall up, there's plenty of room up there to have a purpose build room for maching. You'd reduce the size required to keep dry, and it would also keep them free from grinding etc.

Sounds the best solution. Less area to keep heated, the walls will absorb a bit of the moisture etc.

You're fighting a constant battle protecting against rusty machinery. I run a small electric fan heater and leave it set just above the frost setting when I'm not in there. The thought of the electric it uses is a bit of an **** puckerer, but it's better than the alternative of rusty equipment.

There's so many ways it can happen and how you can try to work around it. Concrete is one thing which is a bane. Plenty of wood in the room, (walls and floor covered over with chipboard in mine, though that eventually suffers the obvious fate when concrete is behind it, and the floor is wonkier than hell due to weight now ), and wooden storage/tool boxes in preference over metal ones are my main insistences in mine. Shifting air through a building doesn't really help any unless you're recirculating only and removing moisture in the process.

 

[brewdexta]

In the house I fitted heat recovery ventilation system from Baxi, as we gutted the house it was easy to put the ventilation pipework in. It works well heat wise and it does take a lot of moisture out of the air. It has a constant drain, it take air out of the landing and bathrooms, pushes it through a heat exchanger to warm up fresh air from outside and in the process the water condenses, coolects and drains away. may think of something similar for the barn

 

[MattF]

That sounds pretty much like a big dehumidifier with pipework attached.

 

[voipio]

The heat recovery ventilation system is only of benefit when it's ventilating a space that is being heated.

 

[brewdexta]

Agreed. Stupid comment, I wasn't thinking straight doh! I blame rusty tool stress.

Humidifier has been on since about 2pm and there's a good few pints in the tank. I've blocked the various gaps up, tomorrow I shall get rid of the rust and apply various stuff to stop it happening again.

 

[octo0072000]

Hi Agrimog
The good news is that its made of 50mm kingspan insulated steel clad panels, the bad news is its 20m x 6m and it would still cost me a gold pig to heat constantly. I do have a paraffin fan heater but they create more moisture.......

1 gallon of paraffin make up to 1 gallon of water weather that is correct or not not sure same with propane heaters as well

copied from council housing site

Paraffin and some types of gas heaters

• Avoid using these sorts of heaters - they are one of the main causes of major condensation problems.
• Paraffin heaters, portable bottled gas heaters and fixed flueless gas heaters all produce heat, but at the same time they also put a lot of water vapour into the air.
• One gallon of water is produced by one gallon of gas or paraffin burning. Paraffin and portable bottled gas heaters can also be dangerous and very expensive to run. They can cost as much as, or even more than, heating using peak rate electricity.

 

[MattF]

tomorrow I shall get rid of the rust and apply various stuff to stop it happening again.

Personally, (and I can see me getting slated for this opinion), I wouldn't be overzealous in efforts to remove that rust. A quick rub down with the likes of a fine wire wool and oil, but I tend to find that a light dusting of that fine surface rust usually acts similar to an aluminium oxide layer, in that it somewhat retards further rust formation, unless the storage conditions truly are dire with regard to metal longevity.

 

[MattF]

1 gallon of paraffin make up to 1 gallon of water whether that is correct or not not sure same with propane heaters as well

That's the formula I've always heard regarding any form of liquid powered heating. One pint of fuel in equals one pint of moisture/water out.

 

[rtbcomp]

....... fine surface rust usually acts similar to an aluminium oxide layer, in that it somewhat retards further rust formation, unless the storage conditions truly are dire with regard to metal longevity.

Rust is hygroscopic so in theorey it absorbs water and causes further rusting.

 

[robocog]

ACF50 is pretty good stuff (works on my motorbikes) and does what it says on the tin

I have sprayed some on my lathe that lives in a small unheated damp shed - and it hasn't rusted despite lack of use

I need to spray some randomly on any metalwork in the garage (conrete sectional with metal roof- yep I know)
My once shiney sockets and tools are starting to "brown off" inside the toolbox :-(
I dread to think what other treasure I store in there is oxidising away

I have a propane heater - but frankly daren't use it as last I did try it out the inside of the roof was dripping like it was raining inside (I was told metal was not the best material)

I last bought a big bottle of the ACF50 as the rattle cans are /OK/ but work out to be expensive and need to be warmed up and shaken well before use - and always seems wastefull as there's always some left in the can after the propellant has gone

I now use it in a small touch up bodywork spray gun with the compressor
It works ace as a mister and does assisit it coating everything in the vincinity without wasting a lot of the fluid :-)

Regards
Rob

 

[ronan]

Just seen the havoc caused to your Tom Seniors now Brewdexta, i was having the same thing happening with my senior and my colchester lathe (see link). I bought a few of the unibond humidity absorbors in the local hardware and they seem to work, went out today and they all had water in them. Oil doesn't seem to work that well as the water mixes with it and it emulsifies and still rusts.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=44046

 

[MattF]

What method did you use for cleaning up the exposed metal surfaces initially Andy?

Rust is hygroscopic so in theorey it absorbs water and causes further rusting.

That's what I've always thought too, uptil quite recently, in that rust naturally leads to worse rust. In practice though, I seem to be noting different results. It'll depend on the conditions, obviously, but I am actually far less concerned about fine flash rust now than I used to be due to the way it seems to behave. If something is in dripping wet conditions though, it's obviously going to rust at full belt.

 

[brewdexta]

What method did you use for cleaning up the exposed metal surfaces initially Andy?

Hi Matt

The surfaces that have faired better were rubbed down with a gerryflex block lubricated with WD40, since then most of these have had gear oil wiped off them while assembling them and a wipe down with an oily rag occasionally.

The worst bits are the hand scraped or etched vertical slides on both mills. Both were cleaned up with something similar to Solvol Autosol. The M1 had a lot more oil applied afterwards, the Light vertical less so and it shows.

My lathe suffered a bit last year but seems to have escaped the worst, and I started using Gibbs on this so I think I will apply gibbs to the sliding bits and Bilt Hamner Dynax UC on other shiny bits for now mainly because that's what I have available.

I did say in another thread somewhere that I would test a few products when my surface plate started suffering. Now I will, I shall get something with sufficient mass to be representative of a large tool (no, not a politician or talent show host ) clean it up, mark some sections off and apply different gunk to all but one and leave it in part of the barn that doesn't have the dehumidifier going and see what happens. There's been a few different products and concoctions recommended so will see what I can get my hands on.

Cheers
Andy

 

[brightspark]

best thing to clean the rust of machine is a scotch pad and wd 40

 

[ronan]

best thing to clean the rust of machine is a scotch pad and wd 40

Or wire wool is good too and you can normally pick it up in the local hardware.

 

[brewdexta]

Well, I've had the dehumidifier on since yesterday lunch time, I've emptied the tank 3 times (I'll hook up the drain soon) and its showing 85% RH on my el cheapo temp/humidity gauge. So I will have to check for more gaps, I think I may be trying to dehumidify Yorkshire or it could be that the gauge is really crap, it didn't arrive until late yesterday so it was about 9 at night before I got it installed so I guess it could have been higher before turning on the dehumidifier.

looking at this site, I'm at risk of metal corrosion - however I don't I needed the site to tell me

I've started getting rid of the rust, stage one is a brass brush to get rid of the powdery stuff, doesn't look too bad.....