Loft conversions

[Welderpaul]

My mate is looking at buying a property, its a city centre terraced house in good condition and well decorated.

It's had a 'loft conversion' done. The structural work seems fine, but there is no stair up to it other than a very steep 'ships ladder' type stair, which doesnt have the correct headroom clearance. Judging by the temperature up there it hasn't been insulated/no vapour barrier etc. The Velux windows are showing signs of condensation etc. Cosmetically it's fine, no signs of damp other than the windows.

It's priced and sold as a 2 bedroom house, albeit the space in the loft (When properly done) would form a decent 3rd bedroom.

He plans to rent it out as-is, which will make £1,150/PCM, and it will be clearly stated as a 2 bed house. The loft room would make an ideal working-from-home space for someone. (For someone who owns a decent heater)

As a future 'project' he's going to gut the loft, insulate, fit out, as well as installing a proper stair. All in line with Building Regs. This will take the property to a 3 bedder, meaning an increase in rent achievable as well as value in the property.

The question is, are there any issues renting it out as it is now, having the loft conversion as it is?

Worst case he'll remove the ladder and fit a loft hatch and deal with it later, but would obviously prefer not to.

Interested in your thoughts chaps

 

[bourbon]

I would be tempted to do what you say, Fit a loft hatch and be done. It then makes it obvious that it is 'just' a loft. I wouldn't be happy to use that as an extra room, until it's all been sorted to building regs

 

[mike os]

As a landlord he would have a duty of care regardless of whether he had done the work or not … best to close it off

 

[brightspark]

as above take the ladder out and put a hatch in if a tennant used it and an accident occurred land lord would be well liable . fire regs building regs the full works daughters rented house is fully boarded and we have a lock on the hatch so it cant be used. if he later uses it planning building regs the full works needed smokes in all the rooms and fire doors. ive just wired one up for my mate and planning were well strict

 

[roblane65]

A smart idea my be to check with the local authority if there was any planning or a completion certificate issued for the the work , if neither he could be opening a whole can of worms just buying the place . I'm not trying to be doom and gloom but worth checking , and yes if renting it just close it off .
if it never met regs in the first place costs to bring to standards could be massive . best just be aware .

 

[Welderpaul]

A smart idea my be to check with the local authority if there was any planning or a completion certificate issued for the the work , if neither he could be opening a whole can of worms just buying the place . I'm not trying to be doom and gloom but worth checking , and yes if renting it just close it off .
if it never met regards in the first place costs to bring to standards cold be massive . best just be aware .

Planning wouldn't be relevant here as it would come under permitted development, but the estate agent has been clear there has been no B Regs application so no completion cert.

 

[roblane65]

As far as I'm aware even a permitted development needs building control , which means a completion cert at the end otherwise we could all build something however we liked . This could be giving him a big clue as to the standard of the conversion . Tell your mate to be aware is all I'm saying

 

[Redsailor]

Would echo all that's been said above. I did most of the design spec's for the self build I'm in at the moment. You will need fire doors on all the habitable rooms plus more stringent regs to observe. Would not be a cheap job to totally strip the loft and redo. I would suggest he obtains a few estimates, which will probably kibosh the idea, unless he is capable of doing it all himself. Then of course you have to factor in the time taken if a diy job.

 

[addjunkie]

Would echo all that's been said above. I did most of the design spec's for the self build I'm in at the moment. You will need fire doors on all the habitable rooms plus more stringent regs to observe. Would not be a cheap job to totally strip the loft and redo. I would suggest he obtains a few estimates, which will probably kibosh the idea, unless he is capable of doing it all himself. Then of course you have to factor in the time taken if a diy job.

I agree. With the decline in the housing market Id be looking for a discount for taking* it on

 

[Pete.]

If they skipped all the regs I'd be questioning whether or not they re-inforced the loft floor beams to make them load bearing.

 

[gaz1]

It's priced and sold as a 2 bedroom house, albeit the space in the loft (When properly done) would form a decent 3rd bedroom.

He plans to rent it out as-is, which will make £1,150/PCM, and it will be clearly stated as a 2 bed house. The loft room would make an ideal working-from-home space for someone. (For someone who owns a decent heater)

Worst case he'll remove the ladder and fit a loft hatch and deal with it later, but would obviously prefer not to.

Interested in your thoughts chaps

remove loft ladder fit hatch

get fire protection installed

rented property needs both gas and electric certificated

gas fires or wood stoves must be certificated or removed

make sure you have a good short term lease on the occupants

 

[Onthespotwelding]

Don’t under estimate the amount of work that will be needed to get the loft “legit”.

IIRC friends conversion cost £15k and he did a lot of the work himself. Probably 10 years ago now.

Always get a structural survey for any work someone else has done.

 

[premmington]

remove loft ladder fit hatch

get fire protection installed

rented property needs both gas and electric certificated

gas fires or wood stoves must be certificated or removed

make sure you have a good short term lease on the occupants

+1 for the above!

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

A smart idea my be to check with the local authority if there was any planning or a completion certificate issued for the the work , if neither he could be opening a whole can of worms just buying the place . I'm not trying to be doom and gloom but worth checking , and yes if renting it just close it off .
if it never met regs in the first place costs to bring to standards could be massive . best just be aware .

Was just about to suggest the same. I'd have it checked before signing

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

If they skipped all the regs I'd be questioning whether or not they re-inforced the loft floor beams to make them load bearing.

Place I was working at last month has one like that. Original 4" joists supporting the floor.

 

[gaz1]

as goes for the third bedroom tell your mate too forget it theres alot more work involved than what he thinks there is

all depends on the landing that its got but no proper landing and you will have to install a fireboard landing moving walls and refitting doors installing of a new staircase

and floor strengthening

 

[Nomad]

No experience with renting but I looked at something similar to buy that had a long room in the loft, and a partition in the middle with a bed in each half. There was another house in the street with similar windows in the roof so I suspect it was made that way (special order?) by the builder. Access was crazy, using a set of ladders that partially blocked the kitchen doorway.

I was advised (England / Wales) that if I bought it, the 2 rooms in the roof couldn't legally be called bedrooms if / when I come to sell it. Updating them to meet modern spec (headroom, insulation, access) would have been almost impossible. If I bought it I'd have been happy to use as hobby room / store room / beds for visiting family & friends but it could have been a real can of worm if it was rented and anyone had an accident.

 

[Welderpaul]

Thanks for the valuable responses chaps, as always

 

[dobbslc]

Place I was working at last month has one like that. Original 4" joists supporting the floor.

4" ceiling joist? Let's just pack them up with some 3" timber then...


I wondered why the floor was bouncing!
A few months later I'd fixed it with 16 7x2" joists a steel and lot of agro!


To the OP it's amazing what people get up too in their own house!

 

[Welderpaul]

It will cost about 8K in materials to put right, it needs a stair putting in from 1st floor, FD, insulating, vapour barrier, board/skim and wire.
Thats assuming its been joisted, which he can check.
It should put circa 50K on the house value and £200/month on the rental.