Learning from Hamburg 1943

[Kram]

No

No, of course we couldn’t let Hitler win. But by the same token we shouldn’t be painting all the German people living in Germany during the Second World War with the Nazi Brush 75 years on.

I dare say theres a fair few British that enjoyed killing the Germans and it wouldnt have mattered what nationality... A good percentage of the human race are not nice people. Its human nature unfortunately.

Add industrialised military, politics and religion to the mess and we get the world as it is now

If one looks at a world map of military budgets you can get quite a clear picture of where the problems might lie. Noting that Russia's budget pre conflict was very similar to ours - this fact has shaped much of my opinion on the subject.

 

[marlinspike]

'It might have been better if the Germans had won'.

I strongly disagree.

 

[redlig]

so its all his fault? they are "just obeying orders"?

Do they have any choice ? Their world is slightly different to ours. Have you ever seen anyone speak openly on camera without looking over their shoulder ? Never heard of the word Gulag.
It takes just one man to start a war .

 

[redlig]

I agree here. But her sole reason was because they were Jewish.
My Uncle was in the Palestine Police after the war.
And the way the poor people are treated to this day is awful.
I was brought up in the Middle East so have a very good understanding of it all.

Totally agree. I just cannot understand that a people who suffered so much during WW2 could inflict similar suffering on others after being foisted onto their land.

 

[julianthegypsy]

So 14% inclinded to politics, but they didnt kill anyone. The percentage joining the German army would be more relevant?

Yes theres many reasons, food, family, security, patriotism and propaganda.. but dont suggest the vast majory of Germans were innocent.

I'd say this is one of the few threads that is still on topic after 4 pages

The European Union is not just an extension of Germanys desire to control the world?

The European union is Churchill's vision of stopping it ever happening again, and we've had sixty years of peace as a result, which I'm guessing is probably a record. I lost family in the one in 14-18 and the last one in 39-45, so I'd say that was a real achievement .

 

[Popcorn]

Read Mein Kampf and you'll see what the European Union is and whose idea it was.......

 

[Kram]

'It might have been better if the Germans had won'.

I strongly disagree.

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Yet the Jews are doing near the same in Palastine so clearly you missed my point. Yes 6 million Jews, children and all, died over a couple of years, vs 2+ million Palastinians living and dieing in horrific concentration camp like conditions for the past 20-40 years. Many areas looking worse than the Ukraine war zones and with a much higher polulation density.

Ofcourse religion dictates that the Jews own not just Israel, but infact, the whole world, so they are will create settlements where they please.

I see the Israelis and Germans have condemmed recent comments by the Palistine leader, comparing current events in Gaza to the holocaust, but perhaps if they stop doing it, people would not need to make these comparisons.

 

[Morrisman]

It’s all got to do with greed and natural resources. If a country say like Zambia decided to invade Zimbabwe, do you think Trillions of foreign military support would flow in? Two letter answer required. Zimbabwe no longer is the bread basket of Africa like it was in its Rhodesian heydays, so there is nothing of value for the West, so they don’t get involved.

Just look at Rwanda, 800,000 people slaughtered in 100 days of open massacre, blood running in the streets, people dragged from their house and hacked to death based on their political voting, basically. They weren't savages living in huts, old Africa. Many of them lived in proper houses, in nice towns etc.

And nobody in the west did a thing, other than stand back and watch. I wonder why?

Notice, Rwanda has very little oil or gas......

 

[Morrisman]

'It might have been better if the Germans had won'.

I strongly disagree.

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I saw a documentary where they discussed how they'd had German soldiers shooting the children, but they basically couldn't do it and many of them broke down mentally.

It was heartbreaking to watch, old footage showing children being dragged from their mothers, lead away by soldiers, mothers absolutely distraught....

They never actually showed the shootings though, but old men described what it had been like, and even 70 years later they were in pieces talking about it.

 

[malcolm]

I should probably not have posted this thread. I was just annoyed that Facebook censored it. These days everything must be black and white. If anyone doesn't agree with you then you must call them an idiot. After the Online Safety Bill it'll only be black. The white will be censored (refering to different views rather than skin colours). Well worth writing to your MP mentioning the excellent article by Jonathan Sumption in the Spectator

Looking back at history they called it propoganda. We get that even more these days. We are told the Russian war is just because Putin is a bit mad and we censor their news sources that would at least offer an alternative perspective albeit skewed just as much in the opposite direction.

I just liked the sign in Hamburg. The destroyed cathedral is a monument to victims of war and tyrrany 1933 to 1945. Note the dates and mention of tyrrany.

Mods feel free to close this thread if you need. I might have touched on awkward subjects.

 

[Mick Annick]

When we used to travel the Middle East we had to have a separate passport for Israel. If the Arabs saw an Israeli stamp they wouldn't let you in.
I was given a globe for one Christmas. The shopkeeper had obliterated Israel with a felt tip pen

On my one and only trip to Dubai they stuck a loose page in my passport with the stamp on so I could take it out if I went to Israel, apparently it works both ways.

 

[Mick Annick]

I should probably not have posted this thread. I was just annoyed that Facebook censored it. These days everything must be black and white. If anyone doesn't agree with you then you must call them an idiot. After the Online Safety Bill it'll only be black. The white will be censored (refering to different views rather than skin colours). Well worth writing to your MP mentioning the excellent article by Jonathan Sumption in the Spectator

Looking back at history they called it propoganda. We get that even more these days. We are told the Russian war is just because Putin is a bit mad and we censor their news sources that would at least offer an alternative perspective albeit skewed just as much in the opposite direction.

I just liked the sign in Hamburg. The destroyed cathedral is a monument to victims of war and tyrrany 1933 to 1945. Note the dates and mention of tyrrany.

Mods feel free to close this thread if you need. I might have touched on awkward subjects.

I’m glad this has been allowed to run, and you were right to raise the issue Malcolm. I know we shy away from controversy here but we can’t pretend this stuff didn’t happen, and is still happening.

 

[mike os]

In no way defending either side in the Middle East, imo they deserve each other … neither side is prepared to compromise or reach any agreement.

The situation is in reality not that much different to our relationship with Eire and the IRA … except the ira wasn’t committed to genocide

 

[fizzy]

I should probably not have posted this thread. I was just annoyed that Facebook censored it. These days everything must be black and white. If anyone doesn't agree with you then you must call them an idiot. After the Online Safety Bill it'll only be black. The white will be censored (refering to different views rather than skin colours). Well worth writing to your MP mentioning the excellent article by Jonathan Sumption in the Spectator

Looking back at history they called it propoganda. We get that even more these days. We are told the Russian war is just because Putin is a bit mad and we censor their news sources that would at least offer an alternative perspective albeit skewed just as much in the opposite direction.

I just liked the sign in Hamburg. The destroyed cathedral is a monument to victims of war and tyrrany 1933 to 1945. Note the dates and mention of tyrrany.

Mods feel free to close this thread if you need. I might have touched on awkward subjects.

The biggest danger of all is to pretend it never happened!