Lathe Upgrades

[T0rnado69]

now i know most of you have big lathes, unfortunately i just dont have the room for a lathe like that.
would love one, remember using one in school when i did metalwork..

biggest one i could really get was a clarke 430L and make a drip tray for it so i could mount it on the end of a long bench.
as apposed to having the metal stand for it.

a few idea's to upgrade are..

1. tool post
2. collect chuck
3. ball screws X and Y
4. or fit a DRO instead of ball screws.


so tool post..... something like this
only issue is my slide is about 65mm, so that one will overhang 7mm from and back, and left side..
if i go to the smaller toolpost, then it wont hold the tools i have (12mm & 16mm) and probably not be high enough to hold tool tip on centre height either.
(my current issue with current tool post) ive had to put 6mm spacers under the top slide to get a bit more height to get tool tip on centre height.

and is it possible to get some holders machined out to take the 16mm tools...?


collect chuck.... the plate my chucks bolt to is 130mm diameter,100mm register and the 3 holes (9mm) PCD is 99.5mm
found 125mm or150mm, 150mm has a bigger register, so thats no good.

so 125mm seems to be the size, one i found here

only issue is PCD is bigger. so is it best to make an adaptor plate to join the two together or.... drill 3 new holes in the collect chuck with 99.5mm PCD.


ballscrews or DRO

so for a while ive been toying with the idea to get some ballscrews to get rid of the backlash, more so in the cross slide really.....
but after watching some videos of DRO's, fitting a DRO might be a much better idea.

i mean fitting ballscrews should get rid of the backlash on the axis, but fitting a DRO, yes your still have the backlash on the current screws, but unless the slide moves it doesn't register on the readout. and a dro will be much helpful when machining stuff to size.


cheers all for thoughts and suggestions and ideas.

 

[addjunkie]

Save the money your looking to spend on all these upgrades. And buy a more ridgid similar sized lathe myford etc.

I owned a clarke and yes you can upgrade it, but with the high min speed and the inability to screw cut, plastic gears etc you will never overcome its short comings.

 

[Munkul]

Backlash in lathe screws isn't all that important. It's nice to reduce it, but ball screws? Nah. A DRO is much more useful and has a much larger effect on your work quality. Cheap and easy to fit, too.

A toolpost upgrade is a nice idea, if you're grinding HSS and changing the tool height quite a lot. Might as well give yourself the best fighting chance with being right on centre.

A collet chuck is a nice idea too, if you're doing a load of small stuff. I'd get an ER40 setup personally. But after DRO/toolpost I'd probably want to save my money for the next lathe.

 

[frank horton]

Wot he said…plus the waste of money when u eventually upgrade…
I have a MYFORD amongst others but look at boxford etc slightly cheaper than MYFORD…
good small decent lathes r at a premium but don’t get fooled into buying low end gear….
I had a lucky escape not buying Warco…
look at home workshop.org for secondhand sales….there r a few dealers on there so watch out…

 

[minimutly]

Wot he said…plus the waste of money when u eventually upgrade…
I have a MYFORD amongst others but look at boxford etc slightly cheaper than MYFORD…
good small decent lathes r at a premium but don’t get fooled into buying low end gear….
I had a lucky escape not buying Warco…
look at home workshop.org for secondhand sales….there r a few dealers on there so watch out…

^wot he said again. I might add look out for a rusty looking project that comes with the gear set - usually these are not as bad as they look and are therefore cheap.

 

[My Old Landy]

If you have already got the Clarke then DRO and tool post is the way to go.
If you are looking for a similar sized machine, the Raglan 5" is excellent and will split from it's base as the motor is integral to the machine. Here's mine, I have not yet fitted a DRO but it is on the list!

 

[T0rnado69]

And buy a more ridgid similar sized lathe myford etc.

I owned a clarke and yes you can upgrade it, but with the high min speed and the inability to screw cut, plastic gears etc you will never overcome its short comings.

space is an issue for me, but if i can find something the same sort of size as this clarke then its something to think about.
i can screw cut and have done in the past, only issue with this is the lowest speed. could do with a really slow speed for threading,
also plastic gears ?? all the gears that i got with this lathe are metal.

Backlash in lathe screws isn't all that important. It's nice to reduce it, but ball screws? Nah. A DRO is much more useful and has a much larger effect on your work quality. Cheap and easy to fit, too.

A toolpost upgrade is a nice idea, if you're grinding HSS and changing the tool height quite a lot. Might as well give yourself the best fighting chance with being right on centre.

A collet chuck is a nice idea too, if you're doing a load of small stuff. I'd get an ER40 setup personally. But after DRO/toolpost I'd probably want to save my money for the next lathe.

yes the less backlash the better. why i thought about ballscrews, but then a DRO would as you say be much more useful to me.

Wot he said…plus the waste of money when u eventually upgrade…
but look at boxford etc slightly cheaper than MYFORD…
good small decent lathes r at a premium but don’t get fooled into buying low end gear….

look at home workshop.org for secondhand sales….there r a few dealers on there so watch out…

i didn't on plan to upgrade. well unless i won the lotto and bought a farm and had outbuildings and a big workshop, then sure il get a big lathe and bridgeport mill.
thanks for the link il get signed up and have a look.

Raglan 5"

nice lathe. could you measure the length and depth if that isn't too much trouble. cheers.
ohh gearbox? no needing to change belts on pulleys.

 

[T0rnado69]

look out for a rusty looking project that comes with the gear set - usually these are not as bad as they look and are therefore cheap.

good idea., ads to his wants list.......

 

[Agroshield]

...I thought about ballscrews...

There are a couple of practical difficulties with ballscrews. First, the ball nuts are physically quite large in comparison to a standard nut (i.e. whatever diameter a 12mm standard leadscrew nut has, a 12mm ball nut will be perhaps 50% bigger). That means some considerable engineering challenges making it fit in the existing space. Second, along with the low backlash, ball screws also have low friction. That means they can backdrive easily. You can hold a ball nut and screw assembly vertically in your hand and the screw will rotate and move through the nut under just its own weight. If you install one on the cross-slide, as soon as the tool touches the work, there will not be much more than the friction of the sliding surfaces preventing the cross-slide coming back towards you.

Redrill the backplate, plug up the old holes with threaded rod, peen it over gently and then skim it and you will barely see the join. An adaptor plate will only move everything further from the spindle. More overhang = less ridgidity.

Looking at Arc's website for the toolpost, I am struggling to see where your dimensions come from. 65 + 14 = 74, the C dimension in their picture, but part of that is the tool holder itself, so the post proper will be less than 65mm. The 100-series holders say they have a 14mm slot in them. Both holders and tools are likely made of tough steel, so you would have to experiment to see which is less painful to adapt. At a push, I'd use a grinder and take 2mm off the top of the tool shank to make it fit - the logic being that there are four clamping screws there so it does not matter so much if it is not level or even. At its maximum capacity, you'd have to trim the dog point on the retaining screws or there will be no threads engaged.

 

[striker]

space is an issue for me, but if i can find something the same sort of size as this clarke then its something to think about.
i can screw cut and have done in the past, only issue with this is the lowest speed. could do with a really slow speed for threading,
also plastic gears ?? all the gears that i got with this lathe are metal.


yes the less backlash the better. why i thought about ballscrews, but then a DRO would as you say be much more useful to me.

i didn't on plan to upgrade. well unless i won the lotto and bought a farm and had outbuildings and a big workshop, then sure il get a big lathe and bridgeport mill.
thanks for the link il get signed up and have a look.

nice lathe. could you measure the length and depth if that isn't too much trouble. cheers.
ohh gearbox? no needing to change belts on pulleys.

You can turn the small lathes manually to cut threads, as slow as you like and no risk of over shooting and crashing. Steve Jordan on YouTube has a video on it. I will get round to making a crank handle for my lathe eventually.

 

[T0rnado69]

Argoshield - yes i know the ball nut are a lot larger and it can be a challenge to get it to fit, some what to even getting some cast iron machining done.

but right now ild sooner go with a DRO set up then ballscrews.. but even that isn't going to happen right now, due to space.
and also im using the lathe to make adaptor for compressor and also got the die holder to machine out still..

they dont give the block size for the tool holder on the site.
the area for the tool post on my slide is 65mm by 67mm.
so its possible it will fit ok. if the picture of block and holder is accurate...

but then saying all this. maybe it will be best to wait, coz if i do find something on ebay or homework shop to replace this 430L
my luck is that the new tool holder would be wrong one for that lathe

Striker - never tried it like that, always engaged the screw cutting feed. but gotta leave it engaged and turn lathe off, go backwards then cut a bit deeper etc.... tis a right pain. but i only use it to cut a few threads i didn't have dies for, due to the operation on doing it and the setting up of all the gears too.

 

[Munkul]

Second, along with the low backlash, ball screws also have low friction. That means they can backdrive easily.

This is probably the most pertinent issue relating to ball screws on a manual lathe. Not a problem for CNC, as the motor holding torque keeps them from moving.
But you're absolutely right - you would have a bad time with ball screws on a manual lathe. You'd have to hold or lock one axis while you feed the other...

On my CNC mill, if I free the x and y, and try to do some milling using the handwheels, the other axis will move unless I hold the wheel.

 

[My Old Landy]

nice lathe. could you measure the length and depth if that isn't too much trouble. cheers.
ohh gearbox? no needing to change belts on pulleys.

Sorry I am wheelchair bound at the moment and cannot get into the workshop or I would have no problem. There are a few others who have them on here, hopefully one of them can help

 

[T0rnado69]

This is probably the most pertinent issue relating to ball screws on a manual lathe. Not a problem for CNC, as the motor holding torque keeps them from moving.
But you're absolutely right - you would have a bad time with ball screws on a manual lathe. You'd have to hold or lock one axis while you feed the other...

On my CNC mill, if I free the x and y, and try to do some milling using the handwheels, the other axis will move unless I hold the wheel.

didn't know you would get this issue using it manually. and yes understandable i guess due to the motor holding torque.
clearly then a DRO is the way forward, but maybe it best to wait and see what i can source that takes the same footprint or close to it.

Sorry I am wheelchair bound at the moment and cannot get into the workshop or I would have no problem. There are a few others who have them on here, hopefully one of them can help

sorry to hear that, no worries

 

[m_c]

I've got a CL500 (same lathe, but with the milling head), and it's still going after many years of abuse.
The milling head however has lived in a box under the bench since about 2 months after it was purchased.

Key things I'd suggest, are add a DRO, and make up a new support bearing block for the Z screw, that takes a couple angular contact bearings, instead of the basic adjuster bush setup it comes with which always slackens off.
I'd also suggest stripping the gib strips out, and check they're flat. I had issues with adjusting play on one of my axis (can't remember which one!), and it turned out one was bent. New gib strip from some gauge plate cured it.
Also swap the grubscrew on x-axis screw thrust bush setup for a longer one with a lock nut. I did look at redesigning it to take a couple thrust bearings, but space is very limited, and adding a locknut cured the biggest issue.

 

[T0rnado69]

i did have the CL500 to start with, but due to damaged on the mill head and they offered me a £10 voucher or get me a replacement head.
i took option 2, due to the cheek of trying to give me a £10 voucher.
i was without it for 9months and not being able to use the lathe as the head was covered with a rag to stop dust and crap getting in and on to the grease.
they took it back and gave me the 430 on vat free deal with some items free...
as i bought a stand alone mill too

i know a full DRO system would be ideal. but i think until i can get an ideal lathe to have.
something like this for the cross slide would do
and i can use a digital Vernier caliper with some magnetic mounts to do the Y for the time being to
as i already have a digital display you can plug into a Vernier caliper.

so if anyone has an Raglan 5", if you could give it a quick measure and let me know the length, depth and height.
that would be great.

home workshop.org have let me in now, so i can search on there too...